The Bucket Foundry

[lohring]

A very similar mechanism with more of a snap motion:
https://grabcad.com/library/jensen-ring-gear-slider-1

Lohring Miller

[Frits Overmars]

My little piston is just too crude with one cast iron ring with too much blow by. I can see it emitting out the top oil fill hole. So a large squirt of oil is needed to seal things up before the fuel is applied. Will have to make a dual steel ring piston.

Didn't mummy tell you 'never use a short stroke in a two-stroke'?
I can understand that you don't want to clutter up the combustion chamber with a deep narrow hole that cannot be effectively scavenged. But if your compression crank runs at twice the rpm of your labour crank, that hole will be flush at BDC, largely solving the scavenging problem, so maybe you can divert a little from your 30,5 mm bore x 8 mm stroke. A smaller bore will reduce the ring circumference and allow for a tighter piston clearance.
Having said this, I've learned that you have good reasons for everything you do, so don't pay too much attention to my brain eruptions. I just like to think along while you are doing all the work .

In case you are interested in smaller bore pistons, Neil Lickfold might be your man. He may even be able to supply you with RSP material.

[Flettner]

Now if we just add some ports to the small piston and have it introduce rich fuel air (only as the main piston is on the way up ie only every second stroke of the small piston) and tie this to a linear rod (crank within a crank system) we can have a resonably clean engine, not using EFI but still using conventional cylinders all within a standard crank case. Add to that the Ryger breathing and you might have an interesting outcome. Kind of going backwards throwing out the electronics I'm sure we could fit a computer in somewhere, perhaps belt timing control. What was I thinking, also cylinder height control (like the FOS), about as far from KISS as I can think.

[Frits Overmars]

Now if we just add some ports to the small piston and have it introduce rich fuel air (only as the main piston is on the way up ie only every second stroke of the small piston) and tie this to a linear rod (crank within a crank system) we can have a resonably clean engine, not using EFI

How would you feed that small piston with fuel only every second stroke without EFI?
With HCCI all the fuel will be burned as long as there is enough air around. But I fear that your cloud of rich mixture won't have time to spread, so a lot of fuel and a lot of air in the combustion chamber will remain unused.

..about as far from KISS as I can think.

I shudder to think of what you may come up with next. A desmodromic foul-stroke?

[Flettner]

How would you feed that small piston with fuel only every second stroke without EFI?
With HCCI all the fuel will be burned as long as there is enough air around. But I fear that your cloud of rich mixture won't have time to spread, so a lot of fuel and a lot of air in the combustion chamber will remain unused.

I shudder to think of what you may come up with next. A desmodromic foul-stroke?

Never liked them (desmo) but I did like their pull rods (on their mopeds)

Yes, I know you are right, just thinking of other ideas that might turn into somthing else, you know.

Ordered some oval gears, hardened teeth too. 2 to 1 ratio. That should speed things up a little. I do like the small offset (4mm) on the 30.5mm piston's crankshaft. If I speed this piston up at the right time that will help. Still going to run through the 2 to 1 step up as well.

[WilDun]

This thread is going way off topic now! but now it's taking off, who cares.
It's becoming more and more interesting every time I look in - sort of becoming a rival to the ESE thread! maybe we should change it's name to " The Experimental Bucket Foundry"!

I have always been intrigued by that crank design and now it looks that I might actually see it in action! - then we'll see If Doug Hele perhaps miscalculated - no amount of calculation will beat actually trying it!

[husaberg]

Never liked them (desmo) but I did like their pull rods (on their mopeds)

Yes, I know you are right, just thinking of other ideas that might turn into somthing else, you know.

Ordered some oval gears, hardened teeth too. 2 to 1 ratio. That should speed things up a little. I do like the small offset (4mm) on the 30.5mm piston's crankshaft. If I speed this piston up at the right time that will help. Still going to run through the 2 to 1 step up as well.

Pulls rods like a NSU?

[Flettner]

Pulls rods like a NSU?

No, some rockers were under the under the cam (in the case) with thin rods connected to more rockers pulling down on the valves, odd ball, not like our sane stuff here.

That NSU system, how does it adjust for heat? As the engine heats up and expands so must the push / pull arms or will overload the bearings. Clearly I'm missing somthing?

Thank you for your time last week Glen, cylinder is sitting on my computer desk now, waiting for the rest of it so we can make some.

[Flettner]

This thread is going way off topic now! but now it's taking off, who cares.
It's becoming more and more interesting every time I look in - sort of becoming a rival to the ESE thread! maybe we should change it's name to " The Experimental Bucket Foundry"!

I can't seem to cope with things that go to plan

Although I did spend today over at Matamata airport testing my gyro's rotor pre rotator (300 rpm, will fly at approx 400 rpm) using a tapered cone clutch, that worked to plan (if there ever was one). She's good to go FAB. Fly that home made engine in a few weeks
Can't wait!

[husaberg]

No, some rockers were under the under the cam (in the case) with thin rods connected to more rockers pulling down on the valves, odd ball, not like our sane stuff here.

That NSU system, how does it adjust for heat? As the engine heats up and expands so must the push / pull arms or will overload the bearings. Clearly I'm missing somthing?

Thank you for your time last week cylinder is sitting on my computer desk now, waiting for the rest of it so we can make some.

No idea, but they were very reliable,set up that was used for a works racer as well.
I have a vauge idea some of the early NSU car engines used the same set up. I think it was written in a article I read the other day about the Muinch.


I enjoyed finally meeting you and Mrs Neil, ps thanks for cleaning my gutters. Plus rebuilding my car engine

Motorcycles
This Ultramax camshaft drive system was first applied to the motorcycles of NSU, the NSU Max NSU Max 300, NSU Supermax, SuperFox NSU, NSU Maxi, NSU Sportmax, Geländemax NSU and NSU Maxima scooter 175 cc (1960).
From 1952 to 1963, approximately 160,000 copies made.

Cars
From 1958 the first cars, the NSU Prinz I to III, was equipped with this camshaft drive system. From 1959 the NSU Sport Prinz 1961 and the NSU Prinz 4, produced till 1973: a total of 740,000 cars.

A total of approximately 900,000 engines were made with this unique NSU Ultramax system.
http://www.nsu4.nl/english/e1ultrama...aftsystem.html

Funny enough my father has two Ducati's both of them are two stroke.
I think they are 80cc I have never seen any others like them in NZ.
One he has had since he was an apprentice, it has home made Earles forks (as was the fashion in the 50's.)
Neither of them are this pretty.

[husaberg]

Is this it?
Ducati Cucciolo

[WilDun]

Funny enough my father has two Ducati's both of them are two stroke.
I think they are 80cc I have never seen any others like them in NZ.

The "Munch" caused quite a stir when it came out with it's NSU car engine but it didn't take the Japs long to make it look a bit old fashioned! I remember Friedel Munch himself later admitting that he wasn't really much of a businessman and preferred 'hands on' stuff in the workshop, as opposed to in working in an office!

I knew a cow cocky in Raglan way back in 1966 - 67 had a small Ducati farm bike which looked a little like the one you pictured, except that it had a different tank, cooling fan with a cylinder shroud, also a high level exhaust - I wouldn't be surprised if it was an adaption of that same model. - good little bike, never missed a beat!
That was back in the days when they were trying to promote the Kawasaki powered "Mountain Goat" - also the 9E Villiers powered 'Gnat' three wheeler as farm vehicles (Kart style with tiller steering, which you sat in rather than on).
Attachment 318768Attachment 318767
Must say the Ducati was way ahead for the time! but the Kiwis did make a good effort!

I believe that this was the mountain Goat prototype - the one I posted before may have been an actual Suzuki - can't be sure, but the Mountain Goat is a long way from the good old Mudbug!

[Flettner]

Is this it?
Ducati Cucciolo

Yes thats the one, Gerbalgronk has one. You can see the beginnings of Desmo right there
I myself had a Zundapp moped untill it was stolen from my storage cow shed, or did it just escape to a better place. It's probably in Brazil now hiding out till the war is over.

[husaberg]

The "Munch" caused quite a stir when it came out with it's NSU car engine but it didn't take the Japs long to make it look a bit old fashioned! I remember Friedel Munch himself later admitting that he wasn't really much of a businessman and preferred 'hands on' stuff in the workshop, as opposed to in working in an office!

I knew a cow cocky in Raglan way back in 1966 - 67 had a small Ducati farm bike which looked a little like the one you pictured, except that it had a different tank, cooling fan with a cylinder shroud, also a high level exhaust - I wouldn't be surprised if it was an adaption of that same model. - good little bike, never missed a beat!
That was back in the days when they were trying to promote the Kawasaki powered "Mountain Goat" - also the 9E Villiers powered 'Gnat' (Kart style with tiller steering, which you sat in rather than on) three wheeler as farm vehicles.
Attachment 318768Attachment 318767
Must say the Ducati was way ahead for the time! but the Kiwis did make a good effort!

He used to have one of those mountain goats as well but a Kawaski engine one.
Pretty sure he might still have the wheels complete with the mini tractor tyres, they were one of the earliest disk braked bikes to boot.
I remember having a go on a Gnat as a kid, I think it had a Honda stationary engine though.
He has a RV90 in the shed (Orange)

I have a road test on the Farmebike/mountain Goat I will post it when I trip over it.

[husaberg]

Yes thats the one, Gerbalgronk has one. You can see the beginnings of Desmo right there
I myself had a Zundapp moped untill it was stolen from my storage cow shed, or did it just escape to a better place. It's probably in Brazil now hiding out till the war is over.

Yowling has a neat goped engine... ,Maybe he will post the pic again.