Trans-Pacific Partnership Agreement

[Brian d marge]

Interesting Link - if however your claim is true, what is your explanation for say the British Pound exisitng since 1694? - it seems that a lot of the currencies listed are from countries with poor Economies.

I'd say that it is not the fault of the Money, but an underlying problem with the Nation/Economy/society.

Another interesting note is the oldest Currencies are from Countries that had strong legal groundings protecting the rights of the individual.

no, money basically retains its purchasing power, unless you get shot by the Americans. The british pound ( currency) was backed by gold ( money) Twas called the Gold standard ,,,, , fiat currencies are backed by nothing more than a promise , Nixon...saw to that in august 71

so no , not the fault of money, ( and ounce of gold is a fine toga ~) ...adding copper into the coin is a debased currency ....

and THAT is an underlying problem with the king / government or shylockian debaser

As for strong legal groiuunding , See the great case of Tooks court , Brian dmarge v The east india trading company ..... hows that legal system now !????

[Brian d marge]

And we do, so the basic function of money has succeeded.



I know what a currency is and does; medium of exchange (trade), standardised value measure, and storage of account.

these quotes from your own source:
"At present there are 177 currencies being used in the world"
"Excluding the early paper currencies of China up until the 15th century and the majority of paper currencies that existed in China until 1935, there are 609 currencies no longer in circulation. Of these, at least 153 were destroyed as a result of hyperinflation caused by over-issuance. The remainder were revalued, destroyed by military occupation/liberation, renamed for political reasons, or were converted to another currency. "

So from your own source, there are more currencies currently in use now, than have failed. And all that have failed have been due to hyperinflation from over-issuance. So as long as inflation is kept under control by issuance (basic govt function), there is no historical evidence that a currency can fail (the remainder categories are obviously in the superceded/converted category).

Obviously hyperinflation is not my idea of success either, but it is in minority; extreme minority if you weight it by represented value exchange. To say all money fails just because some has, is completely illogical.

All , As far as I know, All paper currencies have failed , gone to zero ,,,bye bye ...

• The British Pound, as defined in 1560, originally represented one troy pound of sterling silver.
• In order to finance the wars with both France and Scotland, Henry VIII reduced the precious metal content of the English coins, enabling him to mint more of them, increasing the nominal value in circulation but slowly eroding confidence in the coinage.
• Paper banknotes were first issued in Britain shortly after the establishment of the Bank of England in 1694.
• As of January 2009 it takes £82.50 to purchase that same troy pound of sterling silver bought for £1 four-hundred-and-fifty years ago – a loss of value equaling 98.8%.

As 98% loss in purchasing power .. a true success story , .....

Hey I got an Idea lets call it a fancy name ,,,and make it all technical and stuff ....I know ..lets call it , inflation ...
snip ...

A study you might find intriguing was done on 775 fiat currencies by DollarDaze.org. In this study, it determined that: “There is no historical precedence for a fiat currency that has succeeded in holding its value.”
The study showed that 20% failed through hyperinflation, 21% were destroyed by war, 12% destroyed by independence, 24% were monetarily reformed, and 23% are still in circulation and approaching one of the other outcomes.

looks like a successful system to me ........

BTW, trade is possible without both money and or currency

[TheDemonLord]

no, money basically retains its purchasing power, unless you get shot by the Americans. The british pound ( currency) was backed by gold ( money) Twas called the Gold standard ,,,, , fiat currencies are backed by nothing more than a promise , Nixon...saw to that in august 71

so no , not the fault of money, ( and ounce of gold is a fine toga ~) ...adding copper into the coin is a debased currency ....

and THAT is an underlying problem with the king / government or shylockian debaser

As for strong legal groiuunding , See the great case of Tooks court , Brian dmarge v The east india trading company ..... hows that legal system now !????

If I was to say that with the exception of the Mclaren F1, Certain Electronic applications and Jewelry, that Gold is inherently worthless - how then does that impact your monetary theories? Money is simply a placeholder for something of Value (be that Gold, Time, Land or other) - its function is to be portable, Divisible and to allow a quick and easy comparison between different things, by using a single standard measure.

It's not perfect - but it seems to be that you are using the Correlation equals Causation fallacy.

[Brian d marge]

If I was to say that with the exception of the Mclaren F1, Certain Electronic applications and Jewelry, that Gold is inherently worthless - how then does that impact your monetary theories? Money is simply a placeholder for something of Value (be that Gold, Time, Land or other) - its function is to be portable, Divisible and to allow a quick and easy comparison between different things, by using a single standard measure.

It's not perfect - but it seems to be that you are using the Correlation equals Causation fallacy.

Then why are so many countries and a rich people buying gold
Me thinks you are missing the point about wealth

http://www.rsbullion.com/2011/01/is-...g-into-silver/

Money is/ can be gold
It's fungible portable and holds value also enters the system at approx the same rate as the population. So as a money . I would say its a good starting point

No I'm not using any arguments just stating the facts ...

Prove me wrong if you would like
Show me a successful fiat currency or indeed a harmonious half decent one that had some sort of success for the people using fiat money

I can't think of one ....unless your name is soros ...

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[TheDemonLord]

Then why are so many countries and a rich people buying gold
Me thinks you are missing the point about wealth

Because, just like money or land - it is perceived to have value.

As a thought experiment - Imagine tomorrow that everyone thought Gold was worthless - you would have the same problem that Paper notes can have.

Thus the problem is not limited nor is the sole domain of Paper Notes (which is the point you are making)

[bogan]

All , As far as I know, All paper currencies have failed , gone to zero ,,,bye bye ...

• The British Pound, as defined in 1560, originally represented one troy pound of sterling silver.
• In order to finance the wars with both France and Scotland, Henry VIII reduced the precious metal content of the English coins, enabling him to mint more of them, increasing the nominal value in circulation but slowly eroding confidence in the coinage.
• Paper banknotes were first issued in Britain shortly after the establishment of the Bank of England in 1694.
• As of January 2009 it takes £82.50 to purchase that same troy pound of sterling silver bought for £1 four-hundred-and-fifty years ago – a loss of value equaling 98.8%.

As 98% loss in purchasing power .. a true success story , .....

Hey I got an Idea lets call it a fancy name ,,,and make it all technical and stuff ....I know ..lets call it , inflation ...
snip ...

A study you might find intriguing was done on 775 fiat currencies by DollarDaze.org. In this study, it determined that: “There is no historical precedence for a fiat currency that has succeeded in holding its value.”
The study showed that 20% failed through hyperinflation, 21% were destroyed by war, 12% destroyed by independence, 24% were monetarily reformed, and 23% are still in circulation and approaching one of the other outcomes.

looks like a successful system to me ........

BTW, trade is possible without both money and or currency

Your link showed that not all paper currencies have failed/gone to zero; a simple look in ones wallet shows that has not happened. How can you still say this to be true when anyone can see it clearly isn't?

A currency does not need to hold its exact value over time to succeed. It just needs to be a: medium of exchange (trade), standardised value measure, and storage of account. It succeeds at doing all those things.

[Brian d marge]

Your link showed that not all paper currencies have failed/gone to zero; a simple look in ones wallet shows that has not happened. How can you still say this to be true when anyone can see it clearly isn't?

A currency does not need to hold its exact value over time to succeed. It just needs to be a: medium of exchange (trade), standardised value measure, and storage of account. It succeeds at doing all those things.

And ya don't have to drop a hammer on ya toe to know its not a good idea

If you look in ya wallet you won't find any one cent coins so your chances of using yer pocket money to buy sweeties are slim to none

And I'll race you

You put a tonne of money in the bank or a shoe box under the bed

I'll use me grandmas gold fillings ...let's see how long your wealth lasts

Currency does succeed in meeting your requirements .. As u stated ...

I will swap you all my money ...for gold
Or silver

True .. If you want to I'm up for it ...





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[Brian d marge]

Because, just like money or land - it is perceived to have value.

As a thought experiment - Imagine tomorrow that everyone thought Gold was worthless - you would have the same problem that Paper notes can have.

Thus the problem is not limited nor is the sole domain of Paper Notes (which is the point you are making)

From 1170 roughly the English used a split stick
To pay taxes ... And meet debt repayment
It was quite successful ..
Gold is used because of it durability and the qualities I listed before
And it rarity and perceived value
Some people even use big rocks as money or the distance between big rocks
But the point you are missing is that gold enters the system at the rate of its discovery and cannot be created ....
Sooo tends to be a good storage of purchasing power
Tis why historically we have used it
Fiat currency is just a promise by Obama or Mario dragi..... Can ya see that lasting ,???
Currency backed by gold works you are representing gold by a more manageable material... Don't buy into the Adam Smith lie of there wasn't enough to facilitate modern trade ..that's bullshyt

Just a little side note ....if you look at the gold spot price it basically bottomed .. Look at who fixes the price, hbc Goldman......etc and look at their gold positions... Now you would only drop the gold price if you were buying ....and ya only buy gold when the currency is tanking

Remember physical gold is leveraged at about 300 To 1 to paper gold
We the people are being played hook line and sinker ...imho



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[bogan]

And ya don't have to drop a hammer on ya toe to know its not a good idea

If you look in ya wallet you won't find any one cent coins so your chances of using yer pocket money to buy sweeties are slim to none

And I'll race you

You put a tonne of money in the bank or a shoe box under the bed

I'll use me grandmas gold fillings ...let's see how long your wealth lasts

Currency does succeed in meeting your requirements .. As u stated ...

I will swap you all my money ...for gold
Or silver

True .. If you want to I'm up for it ...





Sent from my SC-01G using Tapatalk

Inflation is a designed and desired part of currency, to claim it as evidence the whole system is a failure shows a profound lack of understanding about the function of currency.

Free tip though, you can swap all your money for gold at any time, there are a number of places that offer this service. If you want to go through me though, I'll insist on up front payment in full, and a 15% commission.

[mashman]

Because, just like money or land - it is perceived to have value.

As a thought experiment - Imagine tomorrow that everyone thought Gold was worthless - you would have the same problem that Paper notes can have.

Thus the problem is not limited nor is the sole domain of Paper Notes

Nothing is more portable than Gold. Nothing is more portable than Tally Sticks. Nothing is more portable than any currency. Nothing is more portable than $. Nothing is more portable than the Euro. Nothing relies on exactly the same principle as Gold and Paper. Why aren't you using nothing yet?

We're doing more than just imagining it

Agreed.

[Ocean1]

From 1170 roughly the English used a split stick

Which was obviously a superior device to the somewhat more abstract monetary unit.

What, with it's continued use from inception to the current day an' all.

I dear say you must have quite a few stashed away under your mattress.

Or is it possible, I wonder if you simply can't wrap your teeny brain around such an intangible concept.

But the point you are missing is that gold enters the system at the rate of its discovery and cannot be created ....

And of course the value of gold is written in granite, part of the ten commandments, nothing to do with anything as wishy washy as perceived current market value.

And diamonds, don't forget diamonds, always rock solid at their rate of discovery, impossible to counterfeit.

Except the price of gold only fails to fluctuate if comparisons to everything else of value are made against an arbitrarily static gold price. An artificial concept in the first place.

And except it's now possible to make diamonds, so close to naturally occurring diamonds it's not possible to tell the difference at all.

So you're one-trick-pony obsession with the tragic consequences of the absurd Bretton Woods debacle is a crock of shit. The abandonment of the "gold standard" was simply removing a layer of perceived value to the single, simple guarantee on the currency itself.


But I guess everyone has their bogyman, carry on.

[Ocean1]

Why aren't you using nothing yet?

Because most of us aspire to somewhat more than nothing.

Which is precisely what nothing will buy you.

[Akzle]

the single, simple guarantee on the currency itself.

ahh. What value, the promise of the crown in right of new zealand inc...?

[Ocean1]

ahh. What value, the promise of the crown in right of new zealand inc...?

Well as you're so keen to point out it's theirs in the first place. Who else do you suppose should guarantee it?

Only, I doubt you've got quite the credibility to pull it off, y'know?

[mashman]

Because most of us aspire to somewhat more than nothing.

Which is precisely what nothing will buy you.

I see you misunderstand. Lulz.

Using nothing gives you access to everything. Ommmmmmmmmm, heh.

Well as you're so keen to point out it's theirs in the first place. Who else do you suppose should guarantee it?

Only, I doubt you've got quite the credibility to pull it off, y'know?

I agree