Are you a 'Kiwi' or a New Zealander?

**Scuba_Steve** · 10th April 2016, 11:11

I'm both depending on if we're talking formal or slang. what I am not is a NZ European
Good to see more and more forms are including New Zealander as an option nowadays, not all of us just arrived in country, quite a few of us were born here.

**russd7** · 10th April 2016, 11:13

seems to me tha "Pakeha" is no more or no less insulting or derogatory than the likes of blacks, niggers, spooks, coconuts, saffers, nips, chinks, golliwogs or any number of words used to denote ethnicity.
I don't like it, was taught at a very young age from older Maori that it meant White Pig and was coined because our flesh tasted like pig meat.

funny thing when i read articles that claim to not finding any written evidence of its meaning, Maori had no written language before modern European landed on these fair shores

**russd7** · 10th April 2016, 11:15

don't mind being called Kiwi, eats, roots and leaves

**Akzle** · 10th April 2016, 11:29

Originally Posted by russd7

seems to me tha "Pakeha" is no more or no less insulting or derogatory than the likes of blacks, niggers, spooks, coconuts, saffers, nips, chinks, golliwogs or any number of words used to denote ethnicity.
I don't like it, was taught at a very young age from older Maori that it meant White Pig and was coined because our flesh tasted like pig meat.

funny thing when i read articles that claim to not finding any written evidence of its meaning, Maori had no written language before modern European landed on these fair shores

no, that's palangi.

pakeha is generally taken to mean "not maori" the french, dutch and even crackerass jew motherfuck english, are all pakeha.

**Tazz** · 10th April 2016, 11:41

Originally Posted by russd7

Maori had no written language before modern European landed on these fair shores

Nor pigs...?

**tigertim20** · 10th April 2016, 11:58

Originally Posted by Tazz

You get 4th+++ generation Americans and Australians calling themselves Greek, Italian or what have you, so technically in the minds of many you are neither a Kiwi nor New Zealander

Doesn't bother me either way personally. Still better than being called Bruce.

Pakeha = non maori. useful only in terms of asserting that one is not Maori. pretty fucking useless in terms of defining someones actual ethnicity.

kiwi, european new zealander, doesn't matter what you call yourself, theres people out there calling you much worse, so who cares?

**Oakie** · 10th April 2016, 12:04

Originally Posted by Mike.Gayner

Why do so many people here have an aversion to the term "pakaha" or "European New Zealander"? It's a descriptive term. Whether you chose to define yourself that way or not is up to you, but it's demographically useful for a variety of obvious reasons.

For me it's because I'd rather just be a member of one big collective (New Zealander) than be broken down into a subset depending on where my great great grandparents came from.

**TheDemonLord** · 10th April 2016, 13:26

Originally Posted by Voltaire

Might be just an urban myth.

At the risk of being a cut and paste know nothing Rant and Raver...

Interesting article:

A clear majority believe that it was, including a substantial proportion of Maori.
•66% of New Zealanders believe that 'pakeha' was originally an insulting term, including 44% of Maori
•Under 30 year olds (70%), Aucklanders (70%) and Cantabrians (68%) are relatively likely to believe that this was the case, while Wellingtonians (56%) and other people living in the lower half of the North Island (56%) were less likely to.

Surely, if the people calling you something believe it to be offensive, and the you believe it to be offensive, then regardless of the original definition of the term, it can be considered by both relevant parties to be offensive.

**Akzle** · 10th April 2016, 13:28

Originally Posted by TheDemonLord

Surely, if the people calling you something believe it to be offensive, and the you believe it to be offensive, then regardless of the original definition of the term, it can be considered by both relevant parties to be offensive.

well, if everyone concerned is a fucken townie and/or ignorant racist cunt, their opinions ar a bit irrelevant anyway. innit.
wait, who started this thread again?

**Tazz** · 10th April 2016, 13:33

Originally Posted by TheDemonLord

Surely, if the people calling you something believe it to be offensive, and the you believe it to be offensive, then regardless of the original definition of the term, it can be considered by both relevant parties to be offensive.

You're forgetting the fact that people are stupid and like to be offended so they have something to feel self important and complain about

**Big Dog** · 10th April 2016, 13:33

Complicated further by not having a common language until Te Reo.
Each of the "7 canoes" had their own dialect with some cross over but not the same.

When I was at school Maori was compulsory up to 4th form. No one ever mentioned Te Reo until the late 80's. We were taught the version of Maori spoken by the teacher with a lot of emphasis placed on those words that were post European influence. Counting, spelling, prayer etc.

Result? While palangi and pakeha may be disrespectful in some tribes it is not in others.

Having been born of two families that go back to the 1840s in New Zealand I don't identify with my European sides.
I relate with being a New Zealander.
I don't mind being called a kiwi, pakeha or palangi. These words only carry the significance you assign to them.

Sent via tapatalk.

**Tazz** · 10th April 2016, 13:35

English isn't exactly what it was 100+ years ago either.

**TheDemonLord** · 10th April 2016, 13:42

Originally Posted by Tazz

You're forgetting the fact that people are stupid and like to be offended so they have something to feel self important and complain about

Don't worry - I'm not forgetting that, I have an intense dislike of Offend-a-trons. The key is that whether the person who uses the comment intends to cause offense by it.