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Thread: The American (USA) 2016 presidential elections thread?

  1. #796
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    "Religious people all think God is on their side. Rich people know He is."

    In the USA, Democrats/liberals/Leftists all point out how the rich, corporate officers, bankers, Wall Street traders, globalists, and other members of the (Republican and conservative) political/economic Establishment are devoted to working the system to line their own pockets in ways no ordinary citizen can do. Then they tell us about all the unfortunates at the bottom of society, poor through misfortunes of various sorts, who deserve any and all welfare they get, and should get more still.

    Then there are the Republicans/conservatives/Rightists who condemn the poor as mostly being too lazy to do honest work, preferring to steal and to cheat the welfare system to support their drug habits and their stupidity and sloth. Meanwhile, they ask us to believe that the people at the top of corporate America are busy creating jobs for the rest of us while our (liberal and Democratic) government Establishment taxes and regulates them excessively.

    These are the two political parties "representing" us. Seems to me their philosophies are each simultaneously astute . . . and clueless.

    I took an introductory Economics class in school with a clever prof. When his lectures got to comparing economic systems, he started with Communism. He laid out a beautiful description of hard working citizens laboring for the mutual benefit of all, with no fat cats raking off all the profits, and ordinary people living prosperous, cooperative, fulfilling lives. He ended by saying to the big lecture hall full of students, "Now I submit to you that this is the best of all possible worlds!"

    The next day, he launched into a similarly detailed exposition on Socialism, then on (economic) Fascism, and finally on Adam Smith's capitalism. In each case he was laying out the theories of the best advocates for each of the four economic philosophies, and at the end of each he would say, "I submit to you that this is the best of all possible worlds!"

    And as far as it went, he was justified in saying that every time. If any economic system actually worked out in practice as it was supposed to work in theory, we would be delighted to live under that system.

    Alas, they never do. Every one of these systems gets seriously warped out of shape, subverted (to my thinking) by roughly the same class of sharp, energetic, self-assured, self-aggrandizing, rather ruthless men who, though they usually see themselves as patriots, always rise to power and use it for the benefit of themselves and others of their kind. The early dreams of a classless communist society never had a chance against the men who took control. We who hold out hope for capitalism tell each other that communism was a nice idea, maybe the sort of system Jesus of Nazareth might have approved of with it's "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need," but that it never could have worked out in practice. We point to the self-adjusting nature of Adam Smith's system as the only method that can work in actual practice, given the self-centeredness and imperfectability of actual human beings. Yet even capitalism has been twisted badly by an establishment of the same men who twisted every other economic system for their own benefit. Crony capitalism has turned out to be far from the best of all possible worlds.

  2. #797
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    The Clinton body count keeps climbing.

    simple question, why did the Soviets modify a air-raid shelter into a gas chamber? what was their intention?

  3. #798
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    Politicians know if you can get the ones who believe in God your on to a winner as they will believe anything.

    The US sent most of its non military manufacturing to China/Mexico etc, other than to the Wall St how did that seem like a good idea?

    So conditions are ripe for a war, US controls military manufacturing, huge supply of cannon fodder.

    Teachers and lecturers....what do they know of the real world, nice cushy job working for the state with captive customers who think they are going to change the world when they

    get their piece of paper and a mountain of student debt....starting off owing money to the Banking System that will try and keep you poor for the rest of your life.

    I'm hoping Trump wins just to shake up the rotten system that has been leaching off the workers for 200 years, and sets of a chain reaction of reform, could start with the bizarre

    easily manipulated voting system the US has.
    DeMyer's Laws - an argument that consists primarily of rambling quotes isn't worth bothering with.

  4. #799
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voltaire View Post

    I'm hoping Trump wins just to shake up the rotten system that has been leaching off the workers for 200 years, and sets of a chain reaction of reform, could start with the bizarre

    easily manipulated voting system the US has.
    You mean the same Donald Trump that has been leaching off and manipulating that system all his life?
    The multiple bankrupt, misogynist and self serving Trump?
    That guy?

  5. #800
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    Quote Originally Posted by seattle smitty View Post
    "Religious people all think God is on their side. Rich people know He is."

    In the USA, Democrats/liberals/Leftists all point out how the rich, corporate officers, bankers, Wall Street traders, globalists, and other members of the (Republican and conservative) political/economic Establishment are devoted to working the system to line their own pockets in ways no ordinary citizen can do. Then they tell us about all the unfortunates at the bottom of society, poor through misfortunes of various sorts, who deserve any and all welfare they get, and should get more still.

    Then there are the Republicans/conservatives/Rightists who condemn the poor as mostly being too lazy to do honest work, preferring to steal and to cheat the welfare system to support their drug habits and their stupidity and sloth. Meanwhile, they ask us to believe that the people at the top of corporate America are busy creating jobs for the rest of us while our (liberal and Democratic) government Establishment taxes and regulates them excessively.

    These are the two political parties "representing" us. Seems to me their philosophies are each simultaneously astute . . . and clueless.

    I took an introductory Economics class in school with a clever prof. When his lectures got to comparing economic systems, he started with Communism. He laid out a beautiful description of hard working citizens laboring for the mutual benefit of all, with no fat cats raking off all the profits, and ordinary people living prosperous, cooperative, fulfilling lives. He ended by saying to the big lecture hall full of students, "Now I submit to you that this is the best of all possible worlds!"

    The next day, he launched into a similarly detailed exposition on Socialism, then on (economic) Fascism, and finally on Adam Smith's capitalism. In each case he was laying out the theories of the best advocates for each of the four economic philosophies, and at the end of each he would say, "I submit to you that this is the best of all possible worlds!"

    And as far as it went, he was justified in saying that every time. If any economic system actually worked out in practice as it was supposed to work in theory, we would be delighted to live under that system.

    Alas, they never do. Every one of these systems gets seriously warped out of shape, subverted (to my thinking) by roughly the same class of sharp, energetic, self-assured, self-aggrandizing, rather ruthless men who, though they usually see themselves as patriots, always rise to power and use it for the benefit of themselves and others of their kind. The early dreams of a classless communist society never had a chance against the men who took control. We who hold out hope for capitalism tell each other that communism was a nice idea, maybe the sort of system Jesus of Nazareth might have approved of with it's "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need," but that it never could have worked out in practice. We point to the self-adjusting nature of Adam Smith's system as the only method that can work in actual practice, given the self-centeredness and imperfectability of actual human beings. Yet even capitalism has been twisted badly by an establishment of the same men who twisted every other economic system for their own benefit. Crony capitalism has turned out to be far from the best of all possible worlds.
    In B4 Mashy comes along to tell you how it's all Moneys fault and that Man in innately good and doesn't want to fuck over each other....

    On a side note - Capitalism works in the real world as the 'best' system because it works with Human Nature, not against it.
    Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress

  6. #801
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    You mean the same Donald Trump that has been leaching off and manipulating that system all his life?
    The multiple bankrupt, misogynist and self serving Trump?
    That guy?
    Oh yeah, I forgot that, surely none of the other members of the two parties are like that at all.

    The way things are Kim Kardashian would probably have got as far a Donald, she knows how to make money out of nothing.
    DeMyer's Laws - an argument that consists primarily of rambling quotes isn't worth bothering with.

  7. #802
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    You mean the same Donald Trump that has been leaching off and manipulating that system all his life?
    The multiple bankrupt, misogynist and self serving Trump?
    That guy?
    What's the alternative?

    A corrupt, self serving, war whore?

  8. #803
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    What's the alternative?

    A corrupt, self serving, war whore?
    Jill Stein looks to be relatively honourable on paper... not at all as you describe her there
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  9. #804
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashman View Post
    Jill Stein looks to be relatively honourable on paper... not at all as you describe her there
    Oh, I'd dearly love to see Green Parties around the world gaining positions of power.

    Not least for the opportunity of witnessing the wailing and gnashing of teeth that would erupt from a number of fuckwits on here.

    (You know who you are).

  10. #805
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    What's the alternative?

    A corrupt, self serving, war whore?
    Yep, that is the alternative...

  11. #806
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    Oh, I'd dearly love to see Green Parties around the world gaining positions of power.

    Not least for the opportunity of witnessing the wailing and gnashing of teeth that would erupt from a number of fuckwits on here.

    (You know who you are).
    ... and then they'd shut up shop in protest thereby making themselves the biggest unprincipled hypocrites in history. I'm still chuckling my arse off on that one. "I don't like your system so I shan't participate... but yeah, bludgers are the worst for not participating in a system that they don't like." . Yeah, bring on teh greens as it'll be fuckin hilarious to watch them become that which they revile.
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  12. #807
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashman View Post
    ... and then they'd shut up shop in protest thereby making themselves the biggest unprincipled hypocrites in history. I'm still chuckling my arse off on that one. "I don't like your system so I shan't participate... but yeah, bludgers are the worst for not participating in a system that they don't like." . Yeah, bring on teh greens as it'll be fuckin hilarious to watch them become that which they revile.
    Physics; Thou art a cruel, heartless Bitch-of-a-Mistress

  13. #808
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    DeMyer's Laws - an argument that consists primarily of rambling quotes isn't worth bothering with.

  14. #809
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    Well, you could be waiting a while

    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  15. #810
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    Quote Originally Posted by seattle smitty View Post
    "Religious people all think God is on their side. Rich people know He is."

    In the USA, Democrats/liberals/Leftists all point out how the rich, corporate officers, bankers, Wall Street traders, globalists, and other members of the (Republican and conservative) political/economic Establishment are devoted to working the system to line their own pockets in ways no ordinary citizen can do. Then they tell us about all the unfortunates at the bottom of society, poor through misfortunes of various sorts, who deserve any and all welfare they get, and should get more still.

    Then there are the Republicans/conservatives/Rightists who condemn the poor as mostly being too lazy to do honest work, preferring to steal and to cheat the welfare system to support their drug habits and their stupidity and sloth. Meanwhile, they ask us to believe that the people at the top of corporate America are busy creating jobs for the rest of us while our (liberal and Democratic) government Establishment taxes and regulates them excessively.

    These are the two political parties "representing" us. Seems to me their philosophies are each simultaneously astute . . . and clueless.

    I took an introductory Economics class in school with a clever prof. When his lectures got to comparing economic systems, he started with Communism. He laid out a beautiful description of hard working citizens laboring for the mutual benefit of all, with no fat cats raking off all the profits, and ordinary people living prosperous, cooperative, fulfilling lives. He ended by saying to the big lecture hall full of students, "Now I submit to you that this is the best of all possible worlds!"

    The next day, he launched into a similarly detailed exposition on Socialism, then on (economic) Fascism, and finally on Adam Smith's capitalism. In each case he was laying out the theories of the best advocates for each of the four economic philosophies, and at the end of each he would say, "I submit to you that this is the best of all possible worlds!"

    And as far as it went, he was justified in saying that every time. If any economic system actually worked out in practice as it was supposed to work in theory, we would be delighted to live under that system.

    Alas, they never do. Every one of these systems gets seriously warped out of shape, subverted (to my thinking) by roughly the same class of sharp, energetic, self-assured, self-aggrandizing, rather ruthless men who, though they usually see themselves as patriots, always rise to power and use it for the benefit of themselves and others of their kind. The early dreams of a classless communist society never had a chance against the men who took control. We who hold out hope for capitalism tell each other that communism was a nice idea, maybe the sort of system Jesus of Nazareth might have approved of with it's "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need," but that it never could have worked out in practice. We point to the self-adjusting nature of Adam Smith's system as the only method that can work in actual practice, given the self-centeredness and imperfectability of actual human beings. Yet even capitalism has been twisted badly by an establishment of the same men who twisted every other economic system for their own benefit. Crony capitalism has turned out to be far from the best of all possible worlds.
    Keep following that train of thought
    I've followed it to before the Sumerians , as the record keeping wasn't so hot back before the Sumerians
    Even back then there was a bullion class gaming the system
    One person however managed to cause Tiberius to use his entire personal fortune... In one of the first cases of Q.E




    sent for a divine source
    "Look, Madame, where we live, look how we live ... look at the life we have...The Republic has forgotten us."

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