The American (USA) 2016 presidential elections thread?

[Woodman]

You reply is littered with value judgements which we don't all share.

And "workers are a resource" hmmm .. first of all workers are human beings, not just a resource for the capitalists to exploit. Exploiting human beings is called slavery ..

Workers are a resource that are there to be exploited. Exploitation is not necessarily a negative thing. The word has been mis-used a lot.

[Banditbandit]

Shakespeare? or that other guy who wrote his plays

Yeah .. the playwright ..

[Banditbandit]

Workers are a resource that are there to be exploited. Exploitation is not necessarily a negative thing. The word has been mis-used a lot.

Good luck when the revolution comes ..

[TheDemonLord]

Good luck when the revolution comes ..

What of the Entrepreneur then? Is he exploiting himself?

[Banditbandit]

What of the Entrepreneur then? Is he exploiting himself?

Well, Stalin certainly thought so - kulaks all and off to the Gulags with them ...

I don't subscribe to the structuralist analysis completely.

I knew of a businessman, with a middle size business, who paid himself a weekly wage at the same rate as his highest employee - and at the end of the year divided the company profits equally between himself and his staff .... and I mean equally, not pro rata on a salary basis.


Now, he had to know business and finance because he established and ran a very successful business ... but he certainly was not an exploiter ..

He also had a very happy, hard-working and loyal staff - which also goes to explain why his business was so successful. This was back in the 1970s .. and he had no strikes. People didn't ask for overtime for an extra hour after work (he rarely asked and more often they put their hands up for it when they knew stuff needed to be done )

Excellent way to run a business.

[TheDemonLord]

Well, Stalin certainly thought so - kulaks all and off to the Gulags with them ...

I don't subscribe to the structuralist analysis completely.

I knew of a businessman, with a middle size business, who paid himself a weekly wage at the same rate as his highest employee - and at the end of the year divided the company profits equally between himself and his staff .... and I mean equally, not pro rata on a salary basis.


Now, he had to know business and finance because he established and ran a very successful business ... but he certainly was not an exploiter ..

He also had a very happy, hard-working and loyal staff - which also goes to explain why his business was so successful. This was back in the 1970s .. and he had no strikes. People didn't ask for overtime for an extra hour after work (he rarely asked and more often they put their hands up for it when they knew stuff needed to be done )

Excellent way to run a business.

If it worked for him, then more power to him.
Ultimately the level of exploitation IMO comes down to the individual. Case in point - my last company, we did a lot of work afterhours (it's IT so it's par for the course) that wasn't paid, but the flip side was no one complained if I was 30-40 mins late into the office - because they knew that I was doing 40+ hours a week with all the A/Hs work.

New company pays me Time and a Half for A/H work, but are a little more strict about the starting time (but not too much) - one of my reasons for leaving the previous company was due to how I felt it treated it's employees.

For my view - the power to negotiate (or shop around if one is feeling exploited) is in proportion to skills and experience of the applicant, the Skills and Experience required for the role and the ease of measuring performance.

[Banditbandit]

If it worked for him, then more power to him.
Ultimately the level of exploitation IMO comes down to the individual. Case in point - my last company, we did a lot of work afterhours (it's IT so it's par for the course) that wasn't paid, but the flip side was no one complained if I was 30-40 mins late into the office - because they knew that I was doing 40+ hours a week with all the A/Hs work.

New company pays me Time and a Half for A/H work, but are a little more strict about the starting time (but not too much) - one of my reasons for leaving the previous company was due to how I felt it treated it's employees.

For my view - the power to negotiate (or shop around if one is feeling exploited) is in proportion to skills and experience of the applicant, the Skills and Experience required for the role and the ease of measuring performance.

Aaa ... to be young and Idealistic ...

Joking ..

Seriously - yes, the power to shop around is useful .. but it's a small country with a limited job market .. and the majority of people do not have that power ...

[TheDemonLord]

Seriously - yes, the power to shop around is useful .. but it's a small country with a limited job market .. and the majority of people do not have that power ...

And this is where I must disagree - in this country we have a multitude of opportunities to upskill, train, educate etc. some are funded, others are partially funded, others have different options (student loan).

If someone doesn't wish to use these options availible - that's fine, but they shouldn't complain when they don't have that bargaining power.

[Banditbandit]

And this is where I must disagree - in this country we have a multitude of opportunities to upskill, train, educate etc. some are funded, others are partially funded, others have different options (student loan).

If someone doesn't wish to use these options availible - that's fine, but they shouldn't complain when they don't have that bargaining power.

Hmmm .. life chances dictate a lot more in life than the fact that there are opportunities ...

How does one person grow up in a state house and become prime minister while another ends up in jail as a serial rapist ...

For the serial rapeist it was too late .... they never learnt they could maker good choices ..

[Akzle]

Let's start with obvious, on account of the number of excuses you make for them.

your right I absolutely made excuses for//

wait on....

[Akzle]

I give your Mashman impression 3/10 - not enough mentions of RBEs

But yes, your Misconception - you build a scenario in which you can't resolve the factors, then point to it as proof of your theory. But your scenario deliberately leaves out the factor that allows you to unite them.

It would be like someone saying that a Motorbike can't be faster than a push bike, by deliberately ignoring that a Motorbike has an internal combustion engine powered by Petrol.

I havent built any scenario.
I either state facts or ask questions.

since you have repeatedly failed to answer even very basic questions i'll not be wasting further time with you. away, peasant.

[TheDemonLord]

I havent built any scenario.
I either state facts or ask questions.

since you have repeatedly failed to answer even very basic questions i'll not be wasting further time with you. away, peasant.

You state some facts, but deliberately omit others. The facts you omit are the ones that answer the questions you ask (but you don't like the answer).

[TheDemonLord]

Hmmm .. life chances dictate a lot more in life than the fact that there are opportunities ...

How does one person grow up in a state house and become prime minister while another ends up in jail as a serial rapist ...

For the serial rapeist it was too late .... they never learnt they could maker good choices ..

Tis true that Chances do have a part to play and there are some who got to where they are by essentially being lucky (although I dislike this as being gifted a chance is one thing, having the skills and ability to take advantage of it is another) whereas others made a success of themselves by hard work and making their own opportunities.

[Akzle]

You state some facts, but deliberately omit others. The facts you omit are the ones that answer the questions you ask (but you don't like the answer).

https://youtube.com/watch?v=1w_XuOBnUAg

[TheDemonLord]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=1w_XuOBnUAg

Then we have an impasse.

However, if it is all smoke and mirrors - you must ask why it has enabled the countries that subscribe to those theories to be so succeful?