Gun happy US police

[pritch]

There's no need for this "self/home defense" bullshit justification for them;

Actually, if you did apply for a firearms licence on those grounds you almost certainly wouldn't get it.

I for one hope the Police don't get to carry guns all the time, they just don't get the training required and they would be a danger to the public. I'm reliably informed they currently get one day training per year, (perhaps, weather permitting).

NZ had no firearms licencing prior to 1918 and that year is not a coincidence. The then new law was not to protect the public, the politicians had noticed what had taken place in Russia in 1917 and didn't want that to happen here. Then as now, they were motivated soley by the desire to save their own arses.

Once many years ago Winchester had a rep attend the local gun club. Somebody asked the rep what Winchester's biggest selling model was, the Pigeon Grade or the new Diamond Grade? Came the answer, "The Defender".
"What's that?
"An eight shot, pump action, riot gun."
"Who the Hell buys those?"
"Every accountant, every lawyer, and every shop keeper in Auckland has one of those."
(And so too did at least one National Party MP.)

In case there is confusion, the Police will not protect you. 'When seconds count the Police are only minutes away.'

They will (may?) subsequently attend the scene of the crime, they will probably investigate, and resources permitting they may even prosecute their suspect(s). They will not protect you, that's not their job, that's up to you. How you might do that is problematical, our firearms storage requirements can make using a firearm for self defence impractical.

For all the talk about it, I've only ever come across one person who had cause to present a firearm at intruders. He had a group of gang members in his house. They got the hint, they left. At speed.

[jasonu]

Have you recently received a head injury? that was the post I quoted and responded to.

I know what I posted. I thought you should give it another, slower read because you didn't get it the first time.


You guys know it's ok to be honest and just say "I like guns" right? There's no need for this "self/home defense" bullshit justification for them; all it achieves is making you look like irresponsible fools, which are character traits of people who really shouldn't have guns...

Yes I like guns. Guns are fun.I shoot my guns often. I like shooting with my friends who also like guns. I like reloading my own ammo. I like scouring the internet for good ammo deals. I like maintaining and cleaning my guns. I also like to be prepared for the day or night I need to use my guns to properly and safely defend myself, my family and my property and hopefully that day will never come. All gun owners I know are normal people who happen to like guns. That doesn't make them (or me) gun nuts just like owning a Hardly doesn't automatically make you a rapist.

[bogan]

Yes I like guns. Guns are fun.I shoot my guns often. I like shooting with my friends who also like guns. I like reloading my own ammo. I like scouring the internet for good ammo deals. I like maintaining and cleaning my guns. I also like to be prepared for the day or night I need to use my guns to properly and safely defend myself, my family and my property and hopefully that day will never come. All gun owners I know are normal people who happen to like guns. That doesn't make them (or me) gun nuts just like owning a Hardly doesn't automatically make you a rapist.

I read it slower, and I'm still baffled as to how that situation benefited from Joe Public having access to semi-automatic assault weapons. Perhaps, and this may be a long shot, you should make more of a point than 'bad things with guns' therefor 'more guns'! The link between the two is just not logical...

The rest, is all fair enough, but not a justification for Joe Public having access to automatic weapons, semi or not.

[jasonu]

I read it slower, and I'm still baffled as to how that situation benefited from Joe Public having access to semi-automatic assault weapons.

.

From your post 290
'And a handgun or bolt action rifle is somehow insufficient for that purpose?'

The link I provided shows how ineffective light caliber handguns are when put up against semi or full auto rifles. I didn't really consider the bolt action rifle but I would hate to rely on one in a 'situation'. Your first shot better be a good 'un because you won't get the time for a second if the bad guy has a semi auto rifle.

When used responsibly guns are a fun and relatively safe and cheap hobby that have the 'home defense' benefit. Safer than my last pastime of road racing motorcycles which kept me poor and nearly killed me (bloody Paeroa). You are welcome to come over and try mine out.

[scumdog]

Therein lies the point, take such items away from law abiding citizens, and the black market price skyrockets. The crims then stick with cheaper handguns, which are arguably more suited to their sort of shenanigans anyway.

Effective weapons legislation is never about making it impossible to procure them, just making it so expensive or difficult that nobody bothers.

As for getting shafted, tell us again why Joe citizen needs automatic assault weapons?

Nobody has said citizens need 'automatic assault weapons' did they?

In any event they don't.

[bogan]

From your post 290
'And a handgun or bolt action rifle is somehow insufficient for that purpose?'

The link I provided shows how ineffective light caliber handguns are when put up against semi or full auto rifles. I didn't really consider the bolt action rifle but I would hate to rely on one in a 'situation'. Your first shot better be a good 'un because you won't get the time for a second if the bad guy has a semi auto rifle.

When used responsibly guns are a fun and relatively safe and cheap hobby that have the 'home defense' benefit. Safer than my last pastime of road racing motorcycles which kept me poor and nearly killed me (bloody Paeroa). You are welcome to come over and try mine out.

The crims were bank robbers, not some blokes after your ipod so that purpose is completely different. Nor did the availability of assault weapons provide any benefit to the civilians anyway, quite the opposite in fact.

Yeh, we get that if you get into a pitched firefight then assault weapons will be advantageous. But what you need to understand, is that effective gun legislation aims to prevent such firefights being so commonplace that you would open carry assault rifles (the only way I can see them preventing another such situation like that one).

[bogan]

Nobody has said citizens need 'automatic assault weapons' did they?

In any event they don't.

And how about semi-automatics? or semi-autos which are very easily converted to full auto? do citizens need those?

[scumdog]

And how about semi-automatics? or semi-autos which are very easily converted to full auto? do citizens need those?

That makes as much sense as 'do citizens need motorbikes that can do 200kph plus?'

[bogan]

That makes as much sense as 'do citizens need motorbikes that can do 200kph plus?'

It's a simple question, it's those who answer yes that fail to make sense. And to answer yours: of course not, but I've not heard of anyone carrying a 200kph plus bike into a theater and murdering 12 people with it, have you?

[Brian d marge]

I have a semi , it used to be full auto

But at my age .....

sent for a divine source

[Brian d marge]

Nobody has said citizens need 'automatic assault weapons' did they?

In any event they don't.

It's called a deterrent. If the citizens have the same or greater fire power that the police
It deters the police from misbehaving

sent for a divine source

[Brian d marge]

From your post 290
'And a handgun or bolt action rifle is somehow insufficient for that purpose?'

The link I provided shows how ineffective light caliber handguns are when put up against semi or full auto rifles. I didn't really consider the bolt action rifle but I would hate to rely on one in a 'situation'. Your first shot better be a good 'un because you won't get the time for a second if the bad guy has a semi auto rifle.

When used responsibly guns are a fun and relatively safe and cheap hobby that have the 'home defense' benefit. Safer than my last pastime of road racing motorcycles which kept me poor and nearly killed me (bloody Paeroa). You are welcome to come over and try mine out.

President Kennedy was head shot in a moving vehicle with a Carcano Model 91/38 ..

Impressive shot one thinks to ones self

sent for a divine source

[pritch]

It's a simple question, it's those who answer yes that fail to make sense. And to answer yours: of course not, but I've not heard of anyone carrying a 200kph plus bike into a theater and murdering 12 people with it, have you?

If you are referring to the incident I suspect then that's interesting. The perpetrator had theatres that were closer to home, there were bigger theatres, but he went to a theatre that had a sign saying that guns were not permitted. Smart decision on his part. Then he tried to make out he was insane...

Guys who live in town talking about guns is like car drivers telling motorcyclists what to do. It might be news to people in Ponsonby or Karori but once you leave the 50kph signs behind most households have a firearm. Those that don't can be considered a pain in the arse by their neighbours. The type of firearm will depend on the requirement of the particular farmer. And yes, some actually do need a semi auto c/f rifle.

[Katman]

It's a simple question, it's those who answer yes that fail to make sense. And to answer yours: of course not, but I've not heard of anyone carrying a 200kph plus bike into a theater and murdering 12 people with it, have you?

Yeah, 2 or 3 is usually the limit.

[bogan]

If you are referring to the incident I suspect then that's interesting. The perpetrator had theatres that were closer to home, there were bigger theatres, but he went to a theatre that had a sign saying that guns were not permitted. Smart decision on his part. Then he tried to make out he was insane...

Guys who live in town talking about guns is like car drivers telling motorcyclists what to do. It might be news to people in Ponsonby or Karori but once you leave the 50kph signs behind most households have a firearm. Those that don't can be considered a pain in the arse by their neighbours. The type of firearm will depend on the requirement of the particular farmer. And yes, some actually do need a semi auto c/f rifle.

That's the one, pre-meditated murder just gets much easier with high capacity and high rate of fire weapons.

Some car drivers ride bikes too... So why do farmers need semi automatic weapons?