Gun happy US police

[Katman]

But it was loaded with magic bullets. How else to explain the "single bullet theory" - According to the single-bullet theory, a three-centimeter (1.2″)-long copper-jacketed lead-core 6.5×52mm Mannlicher–Carcano rifle bullet fired from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository passed through President Kennedy’s neck and Governor Connally’s chest and wrist and embedded itself in the Governor’s thigh. If so, this bullet traversed 15 layers of clothing, 7 layers of skin, and approximately 15 inches of tissue, struck a necktie knot, removed 4 inches of rib, and shattered a radius bone. The bullet was found on a gurney in the corridor at the Parkland Memorial Hospital, in Dallas, after the assassination. The Warren Commission found that this gurney was the one that had borne Governor Connally.[3] This bullet became a key Commission exhibit, identified as CE 399. Its copper jacket was completely intact. While the bullet's nose appeared normal, the tail was compressed laterally on one side

Careful - you'll be labelled a nut case.

[Brian d marge]

Scumdog ur drunk u fker

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[Brian d marge]

But it was loaded with magic bullets. How else to explain the "single bullet theory" - According to the single-bullet theory, a three-centimeter (1.2″)-long copper-jacketed lead-core 6.5×52mm Mannlicher–Carcano rifle bullet fired from the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository passed through President Kennedy’s neck and Governor Connally’s chest and wrist and embedded itself in the Governor’s thigh. If so, this bullet traversed 15 layers of clothing, 7 layers of skin, and approximately 15 inches of tissue, struck a necktie knot, removed 4 inches of rib, and shattered a radius bone. The bullet was found on a gurney in the corridor at the Parkland Memorial Hospital, in Dallas, after the assassination. The Warren Commission found that this gurney was the one that had borne Governor Connally.[3] This bullet became a key Commission exhibit, identified as CE 399. Its copper jacket was completely intact. While the bullet's nose appeared normal, the tail was compressed laterally on one side

And didn't he do that 3 x ... For a patsy , he's a machine

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[Akzle]

. It's almost as if there could be some sort of causal link to go along with US's high gun death and high gun ownership rates...

except there isnt.
canada has similar gun ownership rates and less shootings.
even humble nz, 1 in 12 peoples legally own guns, up to and including "military style semi automatics" and on last count (admittedly in the 80s) the average license holder had four. each.
latest "professional" estimates put it at 1.5 million guns in nz.

the us has a sick culture. firearms are a symptom, not cause.

the fact is that heart disease, obesity, cancer and cars kill more people (globally, but especially in nz) than firearms. but I rarely hear the call to ban cars, or limit their dangerousness to 30km/h and wrap them in foam, nor ban fast food "restaurants" from the country, nor have fat people shipped to an island to loose some fucking weight, nor even extinguish the sun, to prevent all that blasted skin cancer.
no, it's, what was it?, "assault weapons" that you should concern yourself with...

[Big Dog]

except there isnt.
canada has similar gun ownership rates and less shootings.
even humble nz, 1 in 12 peoples legally own guns, up to and including "military style semi automatics" and on last count (admittedly in the 80s) the average license holder had four. each.
latest "professional" estimates put it at 1.5 million guns in nz.

the us has a sick culture. firearms are a symptom, not cause.

the fact is that heart disease, obesity, cancer and cars kill more people (globally, but especially in nz) than firearms. but I rarely hear the call to ban cars, or limit their dangerousness to 30km/h and wrap them in foam, nor ban fast food "restaurants" from the country, nor have fat people shipped to an island to loose some fucking weight, nor even extinguish the sun, to prevent all that blasted skin cancer.
no, it's, what was it?, "assault weapons" that you should concern yourself with...

When was the last time someone burst into a bank "Get down this is a mother fucking robbery, any one moves I'll feed you all cheeseburgers until I induce cholesterol related cardiac arrest in every last one of you!".

Fast food, alcohol, sweets, sun exposure are not generally things we inflict on others.
They are lifestyle choices we make. Life experiences tell me people who expose themselves to these risks do so willingly and with little doubt of the consequences. That if their risk of choice were unavailable they would select another.

Killing someone is a lifestyle choice of the killer but the victim rarely has any say in the events. Suicide an obvious exception.

If I invented a way to walk into a room and expose an entire room of people to enough uv that decimation was likely within seconds and similar numbers maimed, it would be right that that device would be banned unless I could show a genuine benifit to the world at large and then the populace would want it controlled.

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[bogan]

Pest control/Culling (especially on a commercial scale).
Competition shooting.
Preference for the lighter recoil of a Semi-Auto.
Preference for the ease of reloading (esp if the shooter has trouble cycling a bolt).

To address your points - IMO, the US gun Laws are fucked. The UK went waaaay too overboard - NZ has got a pretty good balance. Personally anyone who thinks they need a firearm for self-defence is not the type of person that I think should be walking around with a firearm - case in point, the US and accidental shootings by scared people with a handgun (and yes, that includes the police). If your point is what we 'need' then yes the concession is that for the purpose of Farming or Hunting, there isn't a 'need' for semi or full auto. But then I don't need a Hayabusa, a 250 was 'fine'. The point being that we are allowed to safely operate objects that far exceed the limits of what is needed, provided we follow the rules for the operation of said objects.

Final point - whilst there is a causal link in the US, look at Canada, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland and NZ, all countries with relatively high Guns per capita - all countries with high guns per Capita (although not as high as the US) all countries with strong and well established Hunting and farming cultures and all countries with a very mature gun cultures.

I'll agree that part of the problem is America's Gun Laws (and the extremely high availability of firearms), but it's not the only part.

Good post. I'll concede there are certainly factors other than high gun ownership that lead to US's atrocious statistics; but figures I've seen still put US ahead by about 5x so I don't think putting NZ and US in a similar category for gun ownership is appropriate.

As to the point about bikes, it's a tradeoff, nobody needs semi-autos or high powered bikes when you have bolt actions and cars. But there's another side to the scale, a guns purpose is to kill, and there is much room for abuse; the bikes purpose is transportation, and the room for abuse is through ineptitude, not murderous intent. This is reflected in the statistics.

Aussie is also worth looking at, the Port Arthur massacre and subsequent ban on semi-autos; I'm just not seeing any downsides from that ban, and given the lack of mass shootings and increased decline in gun deaths since then, well it paints a pretty strong picture.

[Brian d marge]

If u want a one world government , ya can't have sheep with guns . Period

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[Crasherfromwayback]

interesting choice.
unwieldly.

.

Not really.

[pritch]

nobody needs semi-autos

You still banging on about that? You are wrong. If a back country farmer has say twenty goats come out of the bush, ideally he'd like to shoot all twenty before they can get back to the bush. Very hard to do that with a bolt action. I've met a farmer with a Simonov (and yes, it was a Simonov not a Norinco), others have a Ruger or other semi automatic for just that purpose.

Then again, I saw a deer farmer loaded for bear with a Mini 30 and several banana mags arrive at speed. He'd heard a helicopter and decided someone was making off with his venison. He was wrong, it was the rescue helicopter picking up an injured motorcyclist. I don't know if he felt silly, he certainly looked silly.

[GrayWolf]

define "assault weapons"



interesting choice.
unwieldly. .

Not really 'interesting', a very good choice!
in a 'scenario' someone armed with a shotgun in close quarters is the first target to 'remove'... they are more deadly, and even if the person is 'shaky' or hurried, just firing them in your general direction has a substantially higher chance of hitting, than a single bullet.
Remember there is a HUGE difference between practising on a target and actually shooting a person.... think 90% would get 'shaky'.

[bogan]

You still banging on about that? You are wrong. If a back country farmer has say twenty goats come out of the bush, ideally he'd like to shoot all twenty before they can get back to the bush. Very hard to do that with a bolt action. I've met a farmer with a Simonov (and yes, it was a Simonov not a Norinco), others have a Ruger or other semi automatic for just that purpose.

Yet, there remains a difference between 'ideally' or 'like to', and 'need'. That one is also clearly a question of scale, not absolutes...

Then again, I saw a deer farmer loaded for bear with a Mini 30 and several banana mags arrive at speed. He'd heard a helicopter and decided someone was making off with his venison. He was wrong, it was the rescue helicopter picking up an injured motorcyclist. I don't know if he felt silly, he certainly looked silly.

Good thing he didn't shoot first and ask questions later then

[Akzle]

Not really.

and how much practice have you had unloading 3" shells from a pisol grip 20"?

[Akzle]

Not really 'interesting', a very good choice!
in a 'scenario' someone armed with a shotgun in close quarters is the first target to 'remove'... they are more deadly, and even if the person is 'shaky' or hurried, just firing them in your general direction has a substantially higher chance of hitting, than a single bullet.
Remember there is a HUGE difference between practising on a target and actually shooting a person.... think 90% would get 'shaky'.

how big is your lounge that a 12ga column of shot is going to arrive as anything other than basically a 50 cal slug? at the ranges we're talking you'd need a blunderbus to get any kind of pattern.

[Crasherfromwayback]

and how much practice have you had unloading 3" shells from a pisol grip 20"?

None. But I've taken a liking to the look of it! The 12 Gauges I've used, would all be cumbersome indoors. Whilst I realise they're outdated and hardly ever used now, my fav is a side by side. Had a sore face the day after cracking off over 200 rounds shooting clays though I must say.

[Brian d marge]

60 # samick sage, field points today, and a quiver of carbon hunt tech arrows ....and a new pair of contact lenses .... Bring it on baby ...

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