Free speech.

[Katman]

People instinctively entrench whenever challenged. They have to. The alternative is to spend a lifetime being bossed around, by everybody.

Arguments are not really about the facts. Not for normal people. Arguments are primarily about egos, who's most sure of themselves, who's going to get angriest and who's going to back down first, etc etc... arguments are about sorting out who's in charge. This is why it is so important to not listen to the other guy. If you start agreeing with what he's saying then you look weak.

And it goes beyond that too.

When people's contributions to an argument are validly rebutted they will often give up on the argument and simply fall back on the option of trying to besmirch their opponent's name in order to silence them.

For example (and I use this example simply as an example - not as any means to direct this thread onto another subject).....

The claim that I'm a 'holocaust denier' is not true. I simply question the scale and accuracy of the 'holocaust' story we have been told. But by labeling me a 'holocaust denier' others hope that the weight of public indignation will silence me.

It's an exceedingly poor method of trying to win an argument.

[Katman]

And before any moderator sees my previous post as an excuse to move this thread to PD, I'm simply pointing out the method many people will use in order to try silencing free speech.

[Katman]

And in the same manner, the term 'conspiracy theorist' is thrown around as nothing more than a pathetic attempt to win an argument by ridicule.

[TheDemonLord]

The claim that I'm a 'holocaust denier' is not true. I simply question the scale and accuracy of the 'holocaust' story we have been told. But by labeling me a 'holocaust denier' others hope that the weight of public indignation will silence me.

Holocaust denial is the act of denying the genocide of Jews and other groups in the Holocaust during World War II.[1] Holocaust denial often includes the following claims: that Nazi Germany's Final Solution was aimed only at deporting Jews from the Reich, but that it did not include the extermination of Jews; that Nazi authorities did not use extermination camps and gas chambers to mass murder Jews; and/or that the actual number of Jews killed was significantly lower than the historically accepted figure of 5 to 6 million, typically around a tenth of that figure.[2][3][4]

your 'questioning' is to deny that the evidence used to support the historically accurate account is valid.

Most Holocaust denial claims imply, or openly state, that the Holocaust is an exaggeration and/or a hoax arising out of a deliberate Jewish conspiracy to advance the interest of Jews at the expense of other peoples

So Tell me about the Zionist greater plan one more time Katman? Or what about the attempts at global control by the Jews (such as the IMF)?

Edit: I'm sure Husaberg will be along shortly with a highlight reel of Katman's greatest Anti-Semitic Hits.

I think the problem here is you don't like that your shit stinks and sticks to the bowl.

[Katman]

So Tell me about the Zionist greater plan one more time Katman? Or what about the attempts at global control by the Jews (such as the IMF)?

Like I said, I didn't raise the point in order to take the thread off on a tangent.

If you want to further discuss something we can easily do so in the appropriate thread.

[TheDemonLord]

Like I said, I didn't raise the point in order to take the thread off on a tangent.

If you want to further discuss something we can easily do so in the appropriate thread.

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1130910092

And I raised the point to show that what you think you do, and what you actually do are two non-overlapping magisteria.

The fact you claim not to be a Holocaust Denier whilst in the same post giving a textbook example of Holocaust Denial.....

[Ulsterkiwi]

so this thread has now gone to shit
I should know better than to look to KB to stretch my frontal cortex.....

[yokel]

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1130910092

And I raised the point to show that what you think you do, and what you actually do are two non-overlapping magisteria.

The fact you claim not to be a Holocaust Denier whilst in the same post giving a textbook example of Holocaust Denial.....

You can't be a "denire" of something that never happened.
It's more of a case of be a non believer in the holocaust conspiracy.

[yokel]

I think the OP was really concerned about free speech he would change his User Name to his real name and with a passport photo as an avatar.

The reason why someone may choose to be anonymous is because we don't currently have free speech.

[Katman]

so this thread has now gone to shit

Are you really suggesting you can't see the relevance in my explanation of one of the ways free speech is being stifled?

I could have used the example, from a number of years ago, of me trying to suggest that motorcyclists take a good hard look at themselves and threads disappearing off into PD land due to the weight of mass Kiwibiker indignation.

Would that have kept you happier?

[Zedder]

so this thread has now gone to shit
I should know better than to look to KB to stretch my frontal cortex.....

Yep, I'd suggest it's a good time for a motorcycle ride about now, I'm going.

[TheDemonLord]

Are you really suggesting you can't see the relevance in my explanation of one of the ways free speech is being stifled?

I could have used the example, from a number of years ago, of me trying to suggest that motorcyclists take a good hard look at themselves and threads disappearing off into PD land due to the weight of mass Kiwibiker indignation.

Would that have kept you happier?

Except it isn't being Stifled, Is it?

You've posted exactly what you wanted to Post.

I've interpreted what you've posted, disagreed with it, and Posted a Rebuttal.

You don't like the rebuttal because it shows you in a negative light.

You also don't like the concept that maybe it's your actions that result in threads going to PD....

[Ulsterkiwi]

Are you really suggesting you can't see the relevance in my explanation of one of the ways free speech is being stifled?

I could have used the example, from a number of years ago, of me trying to suggest that motorcyclists take a good hard look at themselves and threads disappearing off into PD land due to the weight of mass Kiwibiker indignation.

Would that have kept you happier?

grow up Katman. If you want to question the veracity of the holocaust at whatever level that is your perogative. Asking for evidence to support the historical accuracy of how it is recorded is fine by me, in fact I wish people would do this more often.
From my perspective, based on eye witness accounts, photographic and film evidence and the minor detail of millions of people gone missing there is no doubt it happened and was on a scale that can only be referred to as attempted genocide. Does it matter how many million people died in the camps? (plenty of people other than jews) The tragedy is that it happened. The truly sad thing is humanity has allowed it (attempted genocide) to happen again, look at the African continent for examples.

Why does my comment have to be about you anyway? I was referring to TDL giving in to the temptation to being drawn into yet another personal sparring match.

Sending me a message that I am thin skinned and questioning what I do was petty.

The discussion was supposed to be about the erosion of free speech, you are so caught up with being a victim you seem to have failed to notice that I will defend anyone's right to speak their mind and express their ideas. The weight of evidence should decide the matter not vitriol, ad hominem, hearsay and scare mongering.

[Katman]

Why does my comment have to be about you anyway? I was referring to TDL giving in to the temptation to being drawn into yet another personal sparring match.

Then, with respect, perhaps being a little more specific may have helped.

[Ulsterkiwi]

Then, with respect, perhaps being a little more specific may have helped.

True.

I posted after TDL's reaction to your example. Not after your example. A use of the reply-with-quote tool would have been better.