New crash study.

[Gremlin]

First the reason why I thought an ABS bike lost braking ability if the ABS died was due to hearing once that testing stations failed bikes with ABS if it didn't work so I must have heard that wrong myself?

This one needs repeating... and correcting

Testing stations fail ABS equipped vehicles with failed ABS units, as the vehicle entered NZ with it fully functional, and was part of it's compliance getting on the road. It's considered a significant "modification" if you like. It is possible to remove ABS from the system, go through the LVV certification process and get the vehicle back on the road without ABS. Otherwise, you have to replace/repair the ABS module to get the vehicle back to standard (this is what you do with a worn tyre).

ABS interfaces with the braking system, or is a module of the braking system. MBB already touched on it but it takes measurements and decides whether the wheel is locking, and then intervenes. If it's failed, in most cases, it simply never intervenes and will throw an error. Brakes continue to work. Exception to this is probably things like BMWs servo assist brakes. They were complicated stupid things. Mate once commented he came down his gentle driveway, turned off the bike, coasted the last piece and almost ran into his garage door at 5-10kph, because without the servo running, the brakes were operating at a fraction of their full power.

Think you need to stop talking to your WOF guy... (or perhaps stop paraphrasing all the wordy stuff he said)

[madbikeboy]

Exception to this is probably things like BMWs servo assist brakes. They were complicated stupid things. Mate once commented he came down his gentle driveway, turned off the bike, coasted the last piece and almost ran into his garage door at 5-10kph, because without the servo running, the brakes were operating at a fraction of their full power.

Think you need to stop talking to your WOF guy... (or perhaps stop paraphrasing all the wordy stuff he said)

Yeah, like he said.

Servo assisted brakes use vacuum to drive a servo which assists the brakes. They even call the booster, well, a booster. Engineers are very clever at making names for shit, often the names describe the part and the result. Which is why I hate marketing people, they do the opposite of clarity.

When the engine isn't running then there is no vacuum, and therefore no assistance. The brakes are still there, you just need to push harder.

My 67 Mustang has no vacuum assist. This is because I'm a proper man and not a homosexual and I can push hard enough. Highly modified V8's with big cams build fuck all vacuum and I can't be bothered running an outboard pump. Plus, I'm a brainiac and I can measure master bore and stroke ratios to match my callipers. I also make mean omelettes and leap small judder bars in single bound.

The question is, how do diesels get vacuum to drive the brakes? 10 points for the first person to explain why no vacuum and how they get around it. Come on, google it...

[awayatc]

The question is, how do diesels get vacuum to drive the brakes? 10 points for the first person to explain why no vacuum and how they get around it. Come on, google it...

Coz diezelz dont go fast enuf to need brakes, didn't you know?

and it sucks enough to drive a diesel without a vacuum as well.

plus they brake much faster without vacuum if you know how to properly drive them.....


Didn't even need to google that...
been told so by Casino....

[granstar]

Great discussion but one needs to be careful of bad advice, I say ride to your skill and road conditions and mastery of the current bike, best training I ever did was riding trail bikes in my youth and learning to fall, slide, and manouvere, on the road it changes...to road and weather, and traffic conditions./ Always something new to learn, after 40+ years of owning Trumps I see this ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFiUuAywYis

[caspernz]

The question is, how do diesels get vacuum to drive the brakes? 10 points for the first person to explain why no vacuum and how they get around it. Come on, google it...

No throttle body restriction as diesel is direct injection. Separate vacuum pump does the trick.

[Voltaire]

Great discussion but one needs to be careful of bad advice, I say ride to your skill and road conditions and mastery of the current bike, best training I ever did was riding trail bikes in my youth and learning to fall, slide, and manouvere, on the road it changes...to road and weather, and traffic conditions./ Always something new to learn, after 40+ years of owning Trumps I see this ...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFiUuAywYis

And also make sure your bike is in tip top shape with all the maintenance done as per the manufacturers instructions



Wow...there are some clever people on You Tube, I'm going to try it out today.

[caspernz]

And also make sure your bike is in tip top shape with all the maintenance done as per the manufacturers instructions



Wow...there are some clever people on You Tube, I'm going to try it out today.

That YouTube clip was sponsored by the dog & lemon guide chap I suspect. Still too technical for some...

[onearmedbandit]

To use an analogy you are in effect saying that all the people that died in the Christchurch earthquake died because they were not "hazard aware" and those that survived "were" as opposed to got lucky?
If you want to seriously avoid facing any accidental hazard in life it is perhaps you dont get out of bed in the morning. Living full stop is hazardous. You could get run over by a bus tomorrow rather than coming to grief on your bike.

Holy good fuck, what the hell are you smoking? Seriously? You're comparing the earthquake to riding a motorcycle.

See if you can understand this. A couple years back a rider here in ChCh put a video up of a car pulling out in front of them. Not only this rider, but many other 'experienced' riders were up in arms about it, many saying 'there was nothing you could do about it' or how 'no one could've seen that coming'. Now I'm not perfect, but I watched the video before reading what actually happened and I identified the hazard immediately. A car was parked on the side of the road with it's brake lights on and front wheels turned into traffic. It was obvious what was going to happen. Well to anyone who doesn't just rely on luck.

I hope I never ever find myself on the same stretch of road you're on, because you a clearly a hazard yourself.

[caspernz]

Holy good fuck, what the hell are you smoking? Seriously? You're comparing the earthquake to riding a motorcycle.

See if you can understand this. A couple years back a rider here in ChCh put a video up of a car pulling out in front of them. Not only this rider, but many other 'experienced' riders were up in arms about it, many saying 'there was nothing you could do about it' or how 'no one could've seen that coming'. Now I'm not perfect, but I watched the video before reading what actually happened and I identified the hazard immediately. A car was parked on the side of the road with it's brake lights on and front wheels turned into traffic. It was obvious what was going to happen. Well to anyone who doesn't just rely on luck.

I hope I never ever find myself on the same stretch of road you're on, because you a clearly a hazard yourself.

Take a deep breath OAB, most of us here on planet KB will chuckle at his/her stunningly fucked up way of thinking. Look on the bright side, it's now gotten so deranged it will take a seriously dim noob to believe any of the garbage proffered by him/her so we no longer need to warn them noobs...

There might be a DNA link between the North Korean leader, Trump and the one whose name we don't mention...for the logic seems roughly as thick.

[nzspokes]

Holy good fuck, what the hell are you smoking? Seriously? You're comparing the earthquake to riding a motorcycle.

See if you can understand this. A couple years back a rider here in ChCh put a video up of a car pulling out in front of them. Not only this rider, but many other 'experienced' riders were up in arms about it, many saying 'there was nothing you could do about it' or how 'no one could've seen that coming'. Now I'm not perfect, but I watched the video before reading what actually happened and I identified the hazard immediately. A car was parked on the side of the road with it's brake lights on and front wheels turned into traffic. It was obvious what was going to happen. Well to anyone who doesn't just rely on luck.

I hope I never ever find myself on the same stretch of road you're on, because you a clearly a hazard yourself.

What you described is situational awareness and observation. Cassina doesnt understand either.

[caspernz]

What you described is situational awareness and observation. Cassina doesnt understand either.

No that can't be Rob, it's all about the alignment of Pluto in relation to our moon. Oh and luck...

[AllanB]

Did the corner have a lower speed recomendation on it? If so you have just proved my point that "upping the pace" is not a bright idea on a blind bend.

Open road, no recommended corner signs.

Smack on a hundy for a change so very 'legal'

The issue was not me - it was the fool on my side of the road passing into a blind corner - if I had been driving a car (at totally legal speeds or less) the 'gap' I shot through would not have been wide enough.

Shit happens like this.

[nzspokes]

Yes irrespective of what speed/line you are going around a blind bend there is always a possibilty of coming to grief as a result of someone elses screwup. A friend of mine had a good safety tip and that was where possible always follow a car around bends so if shit happens they wear it and not you. I don't know if riding schools recomend that but the 2 teachers on here may like to comment on that idea.

You have to be able to stop in the area you see to be clear.

That fucks your idea.

[trufflebutter]

Yes irrespective of what speed/line you are going around a blind bend there is always a possibilty of coming to grief as a result of someone elses screwup. A friend of mine had a good safety tip and that was where possible always follow a car around bends so if shit happens they wear it and not you. I don't know if riding schools recomend that but the 2 teachers on here may like to comment on that idea.

I suspect it is a given, that in any situation when riding, always have an 'out option'. Relying on a car in front probably does not fall into that category.

I say probably because, although there can be times when a car's reaction/s can be an indicator that something is amiss, it could also mean they are talking on the phone or texting.

[Hads]

Holy good fuck yourself if you ride along stopping in the middle of the road to give way to traffic that are about to pull out do you not risk being being rear ended by anyone who may be following? I would say in such a situation the chances of being rear ended by giving way would be greater than being hit by the car not giving way as most would would rather than not give way to you.

In this case I agree with the experienced riders who said there was nothing you could do. So I am not alone among experienced motorcyclists then in thinking the way I do. If you dont think you can be rear ended by following traffic go back to the post from the other poster who said it does happen and he said the way I stopped at lights put me at risk of being rear ended. I actually thought of him on Saturday when I was actually the first at the lights and I guess in such a situation he would pull off to the side of the road before the intersection untill enough traffic has pulled up in order for him to squeeze along side.

Any motorcyclist/car driver that says there is not an element of luck out there on the road is just a fool in my opinion. Generally speaking the faster you go the less luck you have and statistics prove this.

I prefer to tip luck in my favour a bit so I don't need to completely rely on it for example, I always check my mirrors semi regularly and know what is behind me. I also read the road ahead and begin to slow down if I see a potential hazard, and then adjust my road position accordingly.

Good example was yesterday, driving back from Akaroa coming up to the Motukarara turn off, driver in front puts left indicator on and begins to slow down, I notice a ute waiting to turn right and note that I see no oncoming traffic. Now I have two choices, continue at my pace and go to the right of the car that is beginning to pull over assume the ute has seen me, or, cover the brakes and slow down with the vehicle until I know for certain the driver of the ute has seen me. I chose the latter thankfully because the driver of the ute hadn't seen me and pulls out in front of me, this resulted in me having to do some light braking to avoid a collision.

I assume that most people ride as I do, but this is an example of lowering risk greatly, the only times I have nearly been caught out is when drivers do something completely unexpected, e.g. car driving towards me on open road puts left indicator on and then proceeds to do right hand turn requiring me to slam brakes on to avoid a crash. This happened twice, same driver consecutive days, I don't know where he learned to drive but probably wasn't from this planet.