They should've attended a Ride Forever course

[rastuscat]

Get some mirrors!

Not going to happen. In the same way that front number plates on motorbikes won't happen.

[eldog]

I'm pretty sure you'll find that change correlates to increases in traffic density. People get righteously fucked off when presented with the results of unplanned transport infrastructure.

And no matter what your reason for using a horn a loud one is better than otherwise.

Try the traffic in Bangkok, huge amounts of people going about their way, small toots every one seemed to merge-make way for others. It was like a huge twisting and turning snake. Good to watch and travel in. Everyone just gets on with it.

similar in Rome, huge amounts of scooters, sometimes 5 abreast all zooming about the place. Not a good place to be a pedestrian I can say. Took my own life in my hands crossing the road several times.

or in Guangzhou, really funny place to be a passenger, all exciting driving ability, every road can have multi directional traffic, even motorway off ramps used as on ramps (6people in car). It's a place where if you can't read or speak the local lingo, $ goes a long way.
did see the result of a motorbike accident (car in wrong) not pleasant, but not too serious.

most of these above places horns used mostly to indicate the tooters presence, and they may want to move over a lane.

lately I am finding myself, just chilling while I drive, letting people in, etc.
the horn is only used for danger or look out I am over here.
must be getting older

many of these videos show how important situational awareness, bike/rider ability and being able to deal with events is.

good to review some of these, as I start to get complacent again.

theres several on u tube, English country side with large tractor and a mbike. One the tractor suddenly turns right, gets me every time.

i assume that's what riding schools also teach, along with riding skills.

[GazzaH]

A tractor turning right without signalling wiped out the owner of a bike shop where I used to live. Sent shock waves through the whole community - customers and beyond. It happened on a road I used daily, just out of the village. Made me think.

[swbarnett]

Not going to happen. In the same way that front number plates on motorbikes won't happen.

Those two are definitely not the same. For me a mirror (at least one on the right) is an essential piece of kit for any bicycle. Without it a cyclist can't claim to have anywhere near to full situational awareness. It is my firm belief that at least some of the "hit from behind" cyclist deaths could've been avoided by the proper use of this simple device.

The only possible reasons I can figure out for not having a mirror is ignorance or arrogance.

[nzspokes]

Those two are definitely not the same. For me a mirror (at least one on the right) is an essential piece of kit for any bicycle. Without it a cyclist can't claim to have anywhere near to full situational awareness. It is my firm belief that at least some of the "hit from behind" cyclist deaths could've been avoided by the proper use of this simple device.

The only possible reasons I can figure out for not having a mirror is ignorance or arrogance.

Clearly you know nothing about cyclists.

[swbarnett]

Clearly you know nothing about cyclists.

Please enlighten me. I have been a commuting cyclist in the past for enough years to beg to differ but I am genuinely interested in your take on this. Why do cyclists not use mirrors?

I own a bicycle. So far I haven't used it nearly as much as I would like (bought it just as winter was coming on). One of the first things I put on it was a mirror. Works well.

I commuted by bicycle from Mangere to Mt Albert for several years in the mid '90s. I didn't have a mirror simply because I didn't know such a thing existed i.e. my excuse was ignorance (and probably a little arrogance thrown in). There were numerous times when a mirror would've been extremely useful. As it was I relied on the good driving of others far too often. My rearward situational awareness was abysmal.

[rastuscat]

Please enlighten me. I have been a commuting cyclist in the past for enough years to beg to differ but I am genuinely interested in your take on this. Why do cyclists not use mirrors?

I own a bicycle. So far I haven't used it nearly as much as I would like (bought it just as winter was coming on). One of the first things I put on it was a mirror. Works well.

I commuted by bicycle from Mangere to Mt Albert for several years in the mid '90s. I didn't have a mirror simply because I didn't know such a thing existed i.e. my excuse was ignorance (and probably a little arrogance thrown in). There were numerous times when a mirror would've been extremely useful. As it was I relied on the good driving of others far too often. My rearward situational awareness was abysmal.

There's a difference between commuting cyclists and sports cyclists. In the same way that trials riders are different from track riders.

Commuters are likely to value mirrors, but any self respecting MAMIL will be laughed off the Sunday ride if they turn up with mirrors on.

[ellipsis]

but any self respecting MAMIL will be laughed off the Sunday ride if they turn up with mirrors on.

...and wearing lycra with your nuts hanging out is, 'self respecting'?...

[nzspokes]

Please enlighten me. I have been a commuting cyclist in the past for enough years to beg to differ but I am genuinely interested in your take on this. Why do cyclists not use mirrors?

I own a bicycle. So far I haven't used it nearly as much as I would like (bought it just as winter was coming on). One of the first things I put on it was a mirror. Works well.

I commuted by bicycle from Mangere to Mt Albert for several years in the mid '90s. I didn't have a mirror simply because I didn't know such a thing existed i.e. my excuse was ignorance (and probably a little arrogance thrown in). There were numerous times when a mirror would've been extremely useful. As it was I relied on the good driving of others far too often. My rearward situational awareness was abysmal.

Your forward situational awareness seems to have problems as well.

One of the commonly sold cycle accessories are mirrors. Bar end, helmet etc.

[nzspokes]

but any self respecting MAMIL will be laughed off the Sunday ride if they turn up with mirrors on.

Disagree. Even back when I was racing a good few used mirrors. Most people wouldnt notice a bar end one.

Its a good way to see if someone is not doing there pulls at the front when they are not really tired.

[pritch]

I like to give other motorists a "thank you" bleep on the horn after they've pulled over to let me go past.....but then I was raised to be polite.....unlike a lot motorcyclists on KB it seems

The horn could be misinterpreted, I wave if somebody does something helpful. (OK, I know, loaded comment. )

I don't know how you draw any rational conclusion about how polite people are when that is irrelevant to the topic of conversation.

[pritch]

It's a reflection of our attitude toward driving/riding in general.

In some countries folk are mature enough when operating vehicles to use the horn as a warning device. If they are are about to interact with another road user and suspect the other road user may not have seen them, a small blip on the horn will alert that other road user as to their presence.

When cycling I'd be happy to have vehicles coming up behind me do just that. It's hard to see cars cling from behind.

Thing is, in this country the horn is a thing to express anger. Like "BLOODY CYCLIST GET OUT OF MY WAY" sort of thing. Which is where the loudest horn possible becomes cherished. So we can express anger as loudly as possible.

It's kind of a penis extension.

The only time the horn on my bike gets use is at WoF inspections and in my pre ride checks.

One day we might all grow up. Until then there are Stebel air horns.

That's right up there with your comment on aftermarket levers. I'm starting to think you might be related to Cassina.

[rastuscat]

That's right up there with your comment on aftermarket levers. I'm starting to think you might be related to Cassina.

Distantly, I hope.

[awayatc]

...and wearing lycra with your nuts hanging out is, 'self respecting'?...

Wearing lycra and having balls are mutually exclusive. ...

[swbarnett]

There's a difference between commuting cyclists and sports cyclists. In the same way that trials riders are different from track riders.

Commuters are likely to value mirrors, but any self respecting MAMIL will be laughed off the Sunday ride if they turn up with mirrors on.

There shouldn't be a difference. The same equipment is required for cruisers and Rossi wannabes if they're on the road so why not for different kinds of cyclists?