Go Pros create unsafe riders

[caspernz]

Why do you even bother?

Some of us feel the need (on occasion only mind you) to push back on the incessant bullshit which comes from certain quarters...

As the person who gave the scenario, which is:

I'm riding, or for that matter driving, in the left lane of two lanes. There's another vehicle in the right lane lane. That vehicle suddenly and unexpectedly pulls over to the left and enters my lane. Other vehicle almost hits me, perhaps they do hit me...

I did not mention fear of the car in the right hand lane - that's a red herring.

I did not mention density of traffic - that's a red herring.

I do have other options than to "lane split".

I have no intention of giving up riding.



So, let's get back to the scenario...

thinking about position, awareness, space, speed, environment, weather...

Absolutely on point. Tough arguing a point with a female though, deviation from the specifics suggest you've cornered her...

I like hitting my head against a brick wall...

No!

As has been said before, misinformation needs to be challenged and corrected for the benefit of those who are not sure if it is misinformation.

However, it does raise the question "Is this person for real?". Is it someone who has survived on a bike more by good luck than anything else or is it someone who is highly skilled and playing devil's advocate in order to make others think about their own riding?

If the former than a few Ride4Ever courses would be a good investment - paging RastusCat...

If the later, perhaps they need to come clean about it and approach the topic from a different angle.

Now, back to my morning coffee and Saturday's Herald.

Agree, misinformation must be challenged

[FJRider]

That would not work if you are in bumper to bumper traffic as if you widen the gap between the vehicle in front someone following will likely overtake you and close the gap.

You don't need to drop back very far ... knowing the road helps you plan your overtaking spot better ... and good timing on the overtake helps.

If there is not enough clear vision ahead for a motorcyclist to overtake ... there wont be for any vehicles (cars) behind them.

Bumper to bumper traffic is usually both directions.

[FJRider]

You can only have powers to avoid screw ups that you could make personally. You are a fool if you think you could have the same power to avoid the screw ups of others.

You do have the power. If you consider what possible stupid stunt another motorist near you might pull ... you start thinking of what your options are to prevent and/or avoid it. The sooner you start thinking about it ... the more options you'll have. And ... IF the screw up starts ... you already know what you will do.

Take the right option early ... and the screw up will start without you. If you take a few extra minutes of your precious time to avoid a screw up (that might not even happen) ... there is no downside.

The bad news is ... each situation is slightly different ... so the option you took last time ... might not work this time.

[caspernz]

Finally you say something that makes sense in that every situation is different and as I have said your ability to brake or swerve comes down to how far you are from the shit when it happens. I have been closer than you because I had no time to brake or swerve unlike you and some others on here. Why do you and others think it is impossible for shit to happen too quick to swerve or brake because as I have said numerous times no one would crash if we all had time to swerve or brake now would they?

The majority of incidents/accidents where there's no time to react are classified as either following too close or failing to drive to the conditions. That's the simple fact we've been attempting to get across...

[FJRider]

Finally you say something that makes sense in that every situation is different and as I have said your ability to brake or swerve comes down to how far you are from the shit when it happens. I have been closer than you because I had no time to brake or swerve unlike you and some others on here. Why do you and others think it is impossible for shit to happen too quick to swerve or brake because as I have said numerous times no one would crash if we all had time to swerve or brake now would they?

For me ... it all comes down to ONE thing ... I HATE the sight of blood on the tarmac. (Especially if it is MINE) So ... my preferred option is ALWAYS avoidance.

Disregard who has "Right of Way" ... and allow those who want your spot in the road to have it ... if that is the only option you have to staying upright. You are on a motorcycle ... and usually you catch and pass them later anyway. If you don't ... no biggie ... as they will be endangering somebody else's health.

Keep your mind on the job ... and keep looking for (possible) issues (in front and behind). A large distance between you and other vehicles can never be an issue ... if there is plenty of it ... there is time for choosing options. Lack of following distance kills more motorcyclists than speed alone.

This policy may NOT mean avoidance of all accidents ... but you will avoid more. The more you avoid ... the longer you will live.

[FJRider]

... Why do they believe there is no such thing as luck running out for them I wonder.

We are responsible for our own luck. Lack of faith in your own ability will do your head in. Motorcycling is based on confidence/knowledge/skill .. lack any of the three and you are doomed.

Judging by your posts to date ... you are doomed.

[Akzle]

i've known many people involved in traffic collisions, 2-18 wheels.

the only one stupid enough yet to claim there was nothing they could have done to mitigate or avoid, is young c*ssina.

[Moi]

There is the views from some on here who believe as a result of what, I must say is sheer luck in always having time to brake or swerve but they falsely believe because of always being able to swerve or brake in time in the past they will be able to do so in the future. Why do they believe there is no such thing as luck running out for them I wonder.

I would strongly suggest that luck has very little to do with having time or space to take avoiding actions, but it is skill and the practice of good riding/driving habits that provides them with time and space to avoid a situation that could be of concern to the rider/driver.

[Moi]

You do have the power. If you consider what possible stupid stunt another motorist near you might pull ... you start thinking of what your options are to prevent and/or avoid it. The sooner you start thinking about it ... the more options you'll have. And ... IF the screw up starts ... you already know what you will do.

Take the right option early ... and the screw up will start without you. If you take a few extra minutes of your precious time to avoid a screw up (that might not even happen) ... there is no downside.

The bad news is ... each situation is slightly different ... so the option you took last time ... might not work this time.

+1

......

[Moi]

For me ... it all comes down to ONE thing ... I HATE the sight of blood on the tarmac. (Especially if it is MINE) So ... my preferred option is ALWAYS avoidance.

Disregard who has "Right of Way" ... and allow those who want your spot in the road to have it ... if that is the only option you have to staying upright. You are on a motorcycle ... and usually you catch and pass them later anyway. If you don't ... no biggie ... as they will be endangering somebody else's health.

Keep your mind on the job ... and keep looking for (possible) issues (in front and behind). A large distance between you and other vehicles can never be an issue ... if there is plenty of it ... there is time for choosing options. Lack of following distance kills more motorcyclists than speed alone.

This policy may NOT mean avoidance of all accidents ... but you will avoid more. The more you avoid ... the longer you will live.

I'm sure every rider instructor says words to this effect to every learner...

[Must spread more rep first...]

[Luckylegs]

Finally you say something that makes sense in that every situation is different and as I have said your ability to brake or swerve comes down to how far you are from the shit when it happens. I have been closer than you because I had no time to brake or swerve unlike you and some others on here. Why do you and others think it is impossible for shit to happen too quick to swerve or brake because as I have said numerous times no one would crash if we all had time to swerve or brake now would they?

Because short of someone on the uss enterprise having just issued the command 'energise', i know of no way of something not being in front of you all of a sudden appearing directly in front of you (Without it having some time to get there).

When you say brake or swerve do you mean at least activate the brake lever or are do you mean stop.

Interestingly, my son had a recent accident where he neither had time to pull the brake or swerve. This was because he fucked up and ran clean into it having assumed it had already gone past and he was looking to his right to see what was coming, or not coming, next.

Either way, your a fucktard or playing devils advocate as someone else mentioned...

Does princess bandit have south island siblings???? Hmmmmm

[Luckylegs]

My argument is about those NOT AT FAULT in an accident not having time to brake or swerve always. I find I am not debating with anyone very bright on here which may include you if you don't understand how the situation is different for those not at fault as they are not the ones in control of any time lag between a possible impact.

Maybe im not bright then. My wife would probably concur but... please give me an example of where you believe physics allows for a rider to have an not at fault accident that leaves no time for said rider to activate their brakes (whether said braking allows them to stop or not).

I put it to your your honour, that this scenario is simply fantasy

oh btw, youre not debating with anyone on here. Actual debating actually takes a modicum of intelligence and reasoning, something you are sadly lacking in

[Moi]

My argument is about those NOT AT FAULT in an accident not having time to brake or swerve always. I find I am not debating with anyone very bright on here which may include you if you don't understand how the situation is different for those not at fault as they are not the ones in control of any time lag between a possible impact.

Provide a scenario...

... explain why you believe you'd not have time to brake or swerve

... explain why you'd not have "any time lag between [you mean before?] a possible impact"?





I seem to have been beaten to the mark...

[caspernz]

Defensive driving/riding 101 - always leave yourself an out. Gives best chance of avoiding being in a not at fault accident. Nothing to do with luck or ESP.

[FJRider]

That's true for anyone at fault but I have been talking about those not at fault. The situation is very different for them in terms of their proximity to the driver at fault when they screw up.

In the real world on the roads of NZ ... actual fault matters Fuck all. ALL involved are at fault ... some for causing an issue ... and the rest for letting themselves get involved. The former ... (the ... I didn't think that would happen brigade) and the latter ... (the ... it wasn't MY fault brigade) ... ALL are involved and ALL share responsibility for the result.

Seeing what is developing ... sooner rather than (too much) later ... isn't luck is called called foresight. In the case of a non-event ... it's called a false alarm. And I don't mind them in the least ...

Be "Lucky" and look harder more often. You taking better and safer options sooner ... also means better options for the other vehicle(s) that could be involved.

And I hope and trust that Karma will get "them" in the end.

I hope Karma comes soon ...