Deck layouts

[BMWST?]

...I can't even begin to count the number of decks , verandahs I have built, but being the resident chippy in a very steep, sloped, town for more years than I like to remember and then shifting to another steep, valleyed area where I built more of the bloody things, I can say that of all the BIG decks I have built I reckon most of them only use 10 to 20% of the space, the rest is just a wasted, preconceived idea of a lifestyle of the rich and famous...some of my decks have been twenty to thirty feet high on the downside of the slope...I wouldn't touch the thin 'heinous, penis radiata' decking, even if the joists were a foot apart...there is not enough guts in the board size to handle wet, hot, cold, moist seasons like we have here...I dont even like the 35 mm stuff but will always go with the clients, wishes...I always let my feelings be felt...80% of the decks I have done have been 40mm Macro-Carpa...a little more work involved, but a better result than the 'heinous penis', route...

so what in your opinion would be a good sized deck and what would YOU use as the decking/joist combo.Why is mac more work than pine?

[ellipsis]

...as far as size goes, that would be only opinion, mine...a couple of things I have observed is, on a deck that is on sloped ground, often the side decks are as big as the view/ sunny disposition side which is to be the main playground but often the huge wide side deck is also just a pathway to the main deck yet is often 3 or 4 meters wide yet in their life only get 1.2 meters of them used...that's a big heap of money on materials and labour for no apparent reason...on a flatter section stepped decks of the permitted max size or less, juxtaposed in whatever semblance can be more interesting and split decks into different zone, one of which should be covered...this doesn't mean it has to be the bit off the house covered but generally that makes for a more useful seasonal use of the deck...

...I like working with square posts and recently used 200 x200 pinus about 4.8 meters long...they were overkill and a cunt to work with...150 square posts are not that bad for tall structures but what you pay for and what you get is sometimes a mile apart, twisting, opening etc...round poles are just plain ugly to me unless they are completely covered in...as with all building, timber dimensions are often irrelevant when it come to strength, it's more about correct and enough bracing...I wont go over a 400mm center with any 100x50 joist and these would be on a minimum 150 x50 or 100x100 bearers though square bearers seem to bow or twist more than a longer dimensional timber...

...things seemed to have changed over the 45+ years since I started swinging a hammer and not always for the better...I don't think I'm just being a stuck in the past type of cunt when I say that, if we wanted to buy shit timber in the past we would have had to ask for it... I have always bought my Macro direct from a miller and sorting, taking the arris off and general time spent on drilling etc puts it in the 'a fair bit more work', category than 500 meters of Pinus straight off the big machine...I'm a bit green, and that's not round the gills, when it comes to using hardwood for decks...yeah it looks good, it rots out at the same pace as any other decking in bad situations and looks as tatty as a heinous penis deck if not looked after and I think it's a waste of a fairly good timber resource...

[Moi]

Agree with you. Often they arent that practical a space - your sounds great. I am currently mulling over something similar. Our most used deck (we have two) is tiny (around 3 x 3 m) but it doubles as my outdoor kitchen - I fucking hate open plan kitchen living and hate stinking up the house particulary if I am cooking fish or meat or whatever.. I was going to put up a roof over it but at this point I am leaning towards a shade sail. basically to keep the rain off while I am cooking...

a lot of our Chinese clients designing houses have two kitchens too - one indoor and one outdoor for precisely that reason.

Very pertinent for those of the cooking persuasion. I use the BBQ most weekends, charcoal and Ti tree. Goes on at 10am and my beef cheeks are ready by 6pm.. Can't do that inside..

The better half loves having a clean oven, too.

A few years ago a colleague of the time was saying they'd installed an "outside kitchen", under the carport alongside the garage, which consisted of a stainless steel bench with inbuilt double sink, gas hobs and a small under bench fridge which had come via TradeMe from someone "upgrading" their kitchen.

[george formby]

A few years ago a colleague of the time was saying they'd installed an "outside kitchen", under the carport alongside the garage, which consisted of a stainless steel bench with inbuilt double sink, gas hobs and a small under bench fridge which had come via TradeMe from someone "upgrading" their kitchen.

I had a 6 burner gas hob and sink unit intended for such a thing, someone's rubbish, but have changed my mind. Too much like a filleting station and the steel hurts your eyes on a nice day.
The latest plan is polished granite slabs, Californian oak wine barrels, macrocapa bench tops, wood fired pizza oven (made from the bricks of my chimney when it gets pulled down), hot and cold smoker / bbq, and a big char-grill topped with storm water drain grills for the cooking surface. An "ice pond" for beer and heat gun ignition system for the neolithic toys.

My place is like Steptoe's yard, just need to pull finger and make it happen. Then again, good things take time.

Oh decks, sorry, I ventured into outdoor living. Moi, you're naughty.

[Moi]

I had a 6 burner gas hob and sink unit intended for such a thing, someone's rubbish, but have changed my mind. Too much like a filleting station and the steel hurts your eyes on a nice day.
The latest plan is polished granite slabs, Californian oak wine barrels, macrocapa bench tops, wood fired pizza oven (made from the bricks of my chimney when it gets pulled down), hot and cold smoker / bbq, and a big char-grill topped with storm water drain grills for the cooking surface. An "ice pond" for beer and heat gun ignition system for the neolithic toys.

My place is like Steptoe's yard, just need to pull finger and make it happen. Then again, good things take time.

Oh decks, sorry, I ventured into outdoor living. Moi, you're naughty.

The "latest plan" is definitely a step up from stainless steel bench...


As for venturing into outdoor living, isn't that what decks are about?


As for being naughty...

[george formby]

Dick Emery! I am floored. Totally decked me, heh.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I had a 6 burner gas hob and sink unit intended for such a thing, someone's rubbish, but have changed my mind. Too much like a filleting station and the steel hurts your eyes on a nice day.
The latest plan is polished granite slabs, Californian oak wine barrels, macrocapa bench tops, wood fired pizza oven (made from the bricks of my chimney when it gets pulled down), hot and cold smoker / bbq, and a big char-grill topped with storm water drain grills for the cooking surface. An "ice pond" for beer and heat gun ignition system for the neolithic toys.

My place is like Steptoe's yard, just need to pull finger and make it happen. Then again, good things take time.

Oh decks, sorry, I ventured into outdoor living. Moi, you're naughty.

Shit, while I think of it: I have a bunch of cut up macrocarpa which is bone dry - do you reckon it would be good for charcoal? It burns pretty hot so I think it would be at least OK.

Oh, and beef cheeks - yum. do you add extra liquid to them? (guinness, red wine?) I very rarely can source them from my butcher they are so popular. And forget stuff like beef short ribs unless you preorder. Got a decent recipe today (at least it sounds nice) for pulled beef mexican style which I will try in the next week or so.

[HenryDorsetCase]

...as far as size goes, that would be only opinion, mine...a couple of things I have observed is, on a deck that is on sloped ground, often the side decks are as big as the view/ sunny disposition side which is to be the main playground but often the huge wide side deck is also just a pathway to the main deck yet is often 3 or 4 meters wide yet in their life only get 1.2 meters of them used...that's a big heap of money on materials and labour for no apparent reason...on a flatter section stepped decks of the permitted max size or less, juxtaposed in whatever semblance can be more interesting and split decks into different zone, one of which should be covered...this doesn't mean it has to be the bit off the house covered but generally that makes for a more useful seasonal use of the deck...

...I like working with square posts and recently used 200 x200 pinus about 4.8 meters long...they were overkill and a cunt to work with...150 square posts are not that bad for tall structures but what you pay for and what you get is sometimes a mile apart, twisting, opening etc...round poles are just plain ugly to me unless they are completely covered in...as with all building, timber dimensions are often irrelevant when it come to strength, it's more about correct and enough bracing...I wont go over a 400mm center with any 100x50 joist and these would be on a minimum 150 x50 or 100x100 bearers though square bearers seem to bow or twist more than a longer dimensional timber...

...things seemed to have changed over the 45+ years since I started swinging a hammer and not always for the better...I don't think I'm just being a stuck in the past type of cunt when I say that, if we wanted to buy shit timber in the past we would have had to ask for it... I have always bought my Macro direct from a miller and sorting, taking the arris off and general time spent on drilling etc puts it in the 'a fair bit more work', category than 500 meters of Pinus straight off the big machine...I'm a bit green, and that's not round the gills, when it comes to using hardwood for decks...yeah it looks good, it rots out at the same pace as any other decking in bad situations and looks as tatty as a heinous penis deck if not looked after and I think it's a waste of a fairly good timber resource...

I love macrocarpa. When we bought this house in 1998 we planned the new garage we wanted, then changed it to the new garage we could afford, and did all the landscaping in macrocarpa cut 200 x100 (i.e. railway sleeper size) but cut to length. It lasted about 15 years in the ground and is currently being replaced where necessary. I've not seen decking but would totally use it. It smells so nice when cut!

[Laava]

Shit, while I think of it: I have a bunch of cut up macrocarpa which is bone dry - do you reckon it would be good for charcoal? It burns pretty hot so I think it would be at least OK..

It is full of turpentine and totally unusable for the smoker. Not sure if it's transformation to charcoal would enable it for food use?

[Laava]

I love macrocarpa. When we bought this house in 1998 we planned the new garage we wanted, then changed it to the new garage we could afford, and did all the landscaping in macrocarpa cut 200 x100 (i.e. railway sleeper size) but cut to length. It lasted about 15 years in the ground and is currently being replaced where necessary. I've not seen decking but would totally use it. It smells so nice when cut!

Macrocarpa is a great timber to use inside your house for a varnished or oiled finish as it has lovely colour and grain. Outside it is average at best, doesn't take to paint as well as other timbers, is useless for the likes of weatherboards because it will cup and crack badly but makes for good beams and esp landscaping. It used to be a cheap timber that you couldnt get rid of, then became popular and expensive. I did a large floor in mac clears and itt looked like a lake of honey when it was varnished, unfortunately, it is very soft so didn't bear up as well as they would have liked.

[ellipsis]

...I have been using locally milled Macro for thirty years...on the odd occasions a batch that should really have been firewood from the outset gets milled and sold, and unfortunately sometimes I have ended up with it, very seldom though...
My verandahs are 200x25 macro, my weatherboards are 200x25 macro, they have been open to our extremes of heat, cold and wet for thirty years, apart from a tiny amount cracking up in the first hot summer in a few boards from the same tree that had a large stress line in the middle of them, they are all as straight and flat as the day I nailed them up...apart from availability and my preference, the biggest plus was not having to paint or oil them...I am doing some extensions and roof line change and had to remove about 40 or 50 meters of the weatherboards, all around 3 meters long...I thought I would be using them for shit around the garden but most of them are being reused as weatherboards in the final finish...
...Our kitchen is finished in macro and I glued up some 250x50 macro clears for the kitchen benchtops, it isn't the hardest of timbers but it's pretty much in real good nick after ten or twelve years use...I definitely wouldn't consider it a flooring material...
...I don't know how many thousands of lineal meters of 100x40 macro decking I have ordered from the local millers over the years, but I have had to replace very few boards for clients after the big check that a macro deck needs after a season...the nature of the stuff means some will bend, twist or occasionally cup and you should be prepared to have to hook the odd board out and replace it...I love the shit and am just about to dress up a whole heap for finishings for a kitchen and wash house and w/c for some other macro lovers doing renovations locally...It is possibly one of the best boat building timbers on the planet too, but that's another story...

[Laava]

Wonder if your lower humidity is a factor in that then Ellipsis cos my neighbours weatherboards, untreated and direct fixed, need replacing and water has been getting through in many places. The look is great but overall it is a fail. Not that I think pine weatherboards are better neccessarily, but generally they go on painted. i have not seen macro decking up here but that may be because of how expensive it is.

[Ocean1]

.It is possibly one of the best boat building timbers on the planet too, but that's another story...

Not that stiff, bit rubbery like, but great for heavier sections.

A mate used to make steam bent furniture out of it and I was surprised how well it set. So I've since made steam bent laminated deck beams out of it which worked out well.

Another mate has just bought this: http://www.afloat.com.au/afloat-maga...y#.WU74S_mGOM- Which is all Kauri, Beech and Huon Pine. I'm half expecting a call re a delivery trip.

[ellipsis]

Wonder if your lower humidity is a factor in that then Ellipsis cos my neighbours weatherboards, untreated and direct fixed, need replacing and water has been getting through in many places. The look is great but overall it is a fail. Not that I think pine weatherboards are better neccessarily, but generally they go on painted. i have not seen macro decking up here but that may be because of how expensive it is.

...possibly Laava, I'm not trying to sell the stuff and wont use it in some places...it doesn't mind being outside but will not tolerate being near the ground and definitely not in it...there is not a lot of quality control when I buy the stuff, I do inspect what I'm buying but a visual scan does not let you know what stresses or denseness of the material will be once dried completely...shrinkage from some sappier wood is far more pronounced than others and the situation the tree grows in has a lot to do with the end result...as these trees were originally grown as wind protection etc and have usually just been 'wild', the variances in grain, stress, length of straight limbs is hit and miss, although in saying that a gnarled and very untidy stand that was being taken down less than a k inland from the southerly facing coast which also took the brunt of our screaming northerlies ended up some of the best and straightest I have come across...there are some big straight buggers about 3 k from here that I really want down and drying in my timber shed, but alas the cocky doesn't want or need them down yet...

...humidity does have a lot to play in timber life and we are not very humid where I am which is probably a factor in the sustained use and life of it here...the powers that be, the ones back pocketing Fletcher's silver coin, tried to have it banned down here for any exterior use, mainly because of the fact that they would love to squash anyone not towing their, 'buy our shit only', line...direct fix is not the best option for any timber product, but it is the old method and still prevalent in lots of situations...my shed is clad in totara weatherboards, the borer like the sap and they are cupping more than I thought, but they were probably close to a hundred years old when I reused them...I'm an anarchic, Luddite too, which may have a bit to do with my outlook...

...there are still the odd older buildings out here where you can find Manuka boards and finishings...the skinny little twiggy stands that many think is the end result of the Manuka's life is a little askew...the rule back then, when they were ignorantly clearing everything was to only mill the Manuka that measured a yard at the trunk...

[george formby]

Oh, and beef cheeks - yum. do you add extra liquid to them? (guinness, red wine?) I very rarely can source them from my butcher they are so popular. And forget stuff like beef short ribs unless you preorder. Got a decent recipe today (at least it sounds nice) for pulled beef mexican style which I will try in the next week or so.

No liquid, they are slow smoked. I use my webber kettle with a charcoal "fuse", ti tree, oak or plum on top for the smoke. I rub herbs, garlic, chilli, and a bit of spice into my cheeks the night before. I have a wee saucepan, sans handle, which I fill with water and build the fuse around in the base of the webber. This creates steam and stops any fat igniting on the coals.

The slow heat breaks down the collagen but keeps the moistness, it's divine!

Oh, I don't use those Chinese briquettes, I have a sneaking suspicion they are coal not charcoal. Hardwood charcoal for the win, preferably sustainable Namibian wattle cleared to regenerate native timbers. Green and tasty!