ok Luc, I agree with you. there are things happening inside the Ryger we don't know of. sorry, "didn't" because I was tired of the entire discussion and decided to built my own Ryger version. This afternoon I took one cylinder of my KR1. I quickly made a piston, spacer with a seal for under the cylinder, shortened the conrod to 90mm (just cut-and-weld-it-back-together job), cut the baffle of the exhaust, welded an intake on the back of the cylinder to fit some reeds and you know what ? it ran great from first kick. Started making some calls so I could put it on a dyno this evening and just got back home .
you are right : it is an amazing principle but you guys still have some work , as my Rygerised KR1 made ALMOST 80 BHP ! BEFORE 10.000 rpm ! that is better than my tuned KR1S engine on only 1 cylindre ! check out the realtime evidence :
also tested the max rpm, but I didn't dare to go above 25.000 because of the welded conrod
Here is the inlet of a KZ10C ,this starts to resonate with the reed petal frequency and the case volume at around 12500, with peak Hp at 13500.
In EngMod you can see this happen as the case depression drops below atmospheric at the same time as the positive return wave in the inlet goes positive.
This creates a huge + and - pressure ratio effect on the reeds between BDC and TPO and opens them very quickly and early.
The same situation exists in the Aprilia RSA in that it is mechanically very hard to get the inlet short enough to work correctly at those rpm.
Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.
ok Luc, I agree with you. there are things happening inside the Ryger we don't know of. sorry, "didn't" because I was tired of the entire discussion and decided to built my own Ryger version. This afternoon I took one cylinder of my KR1. I quickly made a piston, spacer with a seal for under the cylinder, shortened the conrod to 90mm (just cut-and-weld-it-back-together job), cut the baffle of the exhaust, welded an intake on the back of the cylinder to fit some reeds and you know what ? it ran great from first kick. Started making some calls so I could put it on a dyno this evening and just got back home .
you are right : it is an amazing principle but you guys still have some work , as my Rygerised KR1 made ALMOST 80 BHP ! BEFORE 10.000 rpm ! that is better than my tuned KR1S engine on only 1 cylindre ! check out the realtime evidence :
also tested the max rpm, but I didn't dare to go above 25.000 because of the welded conrod
Luc, do you believe this ?
Ha ha, hail the new King! Step aside Luc, see Jan Bros has proof too
Love it!
Here is the inlet of a KZ10C ,this starts to resonate with the reed petal frequency and the case volume at around 12500, with peak Hp at 13500.
In EngMod you can see this happen as the case depression drops below atmospheric at the same time as the positive return wave in the inlet goes positive.
This creates a huge + and - pressure ratio effect on the reeds between BDC and TPO and opens them very quickly and early.
The same situation exists in the Aprilia RSA in that it is mechanically very hard to get the inlet short enough to work correctly at those rpm.
So how short should the port be, in an ideal (no carburetor) 125 rotary valve world?
Hardly too late in competition everyone wants the latest and greatest .................but got to have the runs on the board first. IF the engine lived up to the hype last years champ would be cutting laps around tracks with a mountain of youtube clips to look at.
Cmon Neil I expect that you already have the variable length version in progress but working on variable diameter throttle body in combination
Don't you look at my accountant.
He's the only one I've got.
Sorry Flet but with a RV that is a very hard question to answer , as the situation with that engine is highly dictated by the wave actions affect on the carb.
In that scenario the shorter the inlet the better it goes, but that isnt due to inlet length tuning.
The reed engine operates using the 3rd harmonic in the inlet tract and you can see that working in the sim.
But I have never spent hours trying to optimize an RSA so cant really help with what length works best when you take the carb signal issue out of the equation.
Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.
Still very much in the learning mode and limited in capability to contribute at level this thread is going... Hope you don't mind.
With a lot of discussion of the blowdown and exhaust reversion to the transfers, it made me wonder if reeds in transfer ports have been tried? I'd expect so. Just something that made me wonder, if there could be a benefit.
Here is the inlet of a KZ10C ,this starts to resonate with the reed petal frequency and the case volume at around 12500, with peak Hp at 13500.
In EngMod you can see this happen as the case depression drops below atmospheric at the same time as the positive return wave in the inlet goes positive.
This creates a huge + and - pressure ratio effect on the reeds between BDC and TPO and opens them very quickly and early.
The same situation exists in the Aprilia RSA in that it is mechanically very hard to get the inlet short enough to work correctly at those rpm.
Nice =)
I got 0.45 polini carbon blades on an almost std kx250 cage.
I just ported the stuffer to receive flow from my 43.5mm carb.
The picture i added doesn´t show all things.
If looked from above one could see that i diffuse the flow some before hitting the petals.(the cage are wider at front, as normal)
I also use 2 big petals instead of 8 small ones.
As i don´t have Engmod i have used trial and error method
And coming from a history of stereobuilding in my car in my youth, i know that different diameters of a tube resonates completely different if having the same length.
Rule of thumb, bigger diameter=longer tube to resonate in same Hz.
I feel at this point all my tricks up my sleeve is getting used.
I dynoed my old 132cc honda 44hp to the sprocket = 0.33hp per cc
I dynoed this 211cc kawa to 71.35hp to the sprocket = 0.33hp per cc
In both engines i dunno what to do next *lol*
And i see a red line here, at 0.33hp per cc my knowledge is the limit.
That looks awesome wobbly.
Here is what I am doing at the moment. The studs get in the way of going for bigger b ports, the situation leaves me as only being able to make c ports. I was planing on two ports but if you think one bigger ones is better then I will go to that.
My question kind of got lost in the argument that followed. Would you go for one or two c ports in a situation like I am faced with. There is little room to make the b transfer any bigger due to studs being in the way.
One of the pictures shows where some one did a single port previously on another cylinder I'm just trying to find the best way.
My question kind of got lost in the argument that followed. Would you go for one or two c ports in a situation like I am faced with. There is little room to make the b transfer any bigger due to studs being in the way.
One of the pictures shows where some one did a single port previously on another cylinder I'm just trying to find the best way.
When welding that much, weld some more
move the rear studs more backwards to allow you to increase size of B-ports more to the rear.
Then use a normal boost c-port.
As in the TZ cylinder I posted the trick to getting the best port/ducts into the casting was to bore the stud holes slightly oversize,then fit wasted
studs.
The studs screw into the case, and get ground away where the duct needs to gain area.Then the stud is drilled and threaded from the top, and the head held down with cap screws
into this thread.
In your case it looks easy to gain a heap of B duct,and thus increase the port - with a hook as well.
Single C ports work better than two, as several manufacturers have used both, but always revert to the single ( TZ250 V twin is good example )
Ive got a thing thats unique and new.To prove it I'll have the last laugh on you.Cause instead of one head I got two.And you know two heads are better than one.
Thanks guys, the class doent allow me to weld on the cases I can do what I like to the cylinder, so moving the studs is not really a possibility. I do like the idea of making shortened studs and then grinding them that's an easy way to get more B-port.
Ok one C port it is.
When I make the c port there is plenty of room to put a hook in that, while it would add to the flow I thought maybe it may not be a good idea as it would be the highest flowing port. Or is not an issue and hook it anyway
Here is the inlet of a KZ10C ,this starts to resonate with the reed petal frequency and the case volume at around 12500, with peak Hp at 13500.
In EngMod you can see this happen as the case depression drops below atmospheric at the same time as the positive return wave in the inlet goes positive.
This creates a huge + and - pressure ratio effect on the reeds between BDC and TPO and opens them very quickly and early.
The same situation exists in the Aprilia RSA in that it is mechanically very hard to get the inlet short enough to work correctly at those rpm.
Hey wob, the comment "2/3 off reed block length". Is that supposed to be "2/3 of the reed block length"? If so how come you haven't modeled it using the full duct length?
A few guesses: 1) maybe to take into account the reed block protruding into the duct, 2) maybe using length as a way to manipulate the flow/volume in engmod because it's a rectangular duct rather than a tube?
this is just my amatuer way of thinking but on most all cylinder reedvalvers ive seen , the C passage is crap. very short and sometimes partially clogged by the reed block so how much good is it doing anyways, no matter how much magic dust you sprinkle on it. i liked to spend most of my time making A and B the best they can be
Originally Posted by LucF
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