North Korea

[TheDemonLord]

Yes there is....always has been, and always will be again.

Okay then - what are they?

What criteria have to be met where it is acceptable to have an armed intervention to another country that has not attacked you?

I'm genuinely curious.

[Voltaire]

If Kim did fire a rocket and it did say hit Guam or anywhere that is a " US Ally", are there any 'safeties" between the nuclear codes and Trump?

[T.W.R]

One Word:

Appeasement.

Wrong that was the kicker by Neville Chamberlain that lead to WWII and nothing to do with the rise of the Nazi Party or Hilter's climb to power at the helm of the party.
And there was definitely no appeasement involved in what caused Japan to lash out either. It's actually the total opposite on both accounts.

[TheDemonLord]

Wrong that was the kicker by Neville Chamberlain that lead to WWII and nothing to do with the rise of the Nazi Party or Hilter's climb to power at the helm of the party.
And there was definitely no appeasement involved in what caused Japan to lash out either. It's actually the total opposite on both accounts.

The we appear to be talking cross-purposes - Appeasement is entirely relevant as a classic case of the Archetypal events of willfull blindness leading to Chaos - When I referenced the Rise of Hitler - I'm talking about when the warning signs were there that he wasn't all he appeared to be (late 1930s).

[T.W.R]

The we appear to be talking cross-purposes - Appeasement is entirely relevant as a classic case of the Archetypal events of willfull blindness leading to Chaos - When I referenced the Rise of Hitler - I'm talking about when the warning signs were there that he wasn't all he appeared to be (late 1930s).

Not really....what I'm trying to point out to you is totally relevant to current events happening between the two halfwits and your pointing out appeasement is relevant in the fact that in reference to WWII & the Nazis was a action too late, though an action by Chamberlain well after the Nazis had risen to power and Hitler had jumped to the helm

Both instances of Germany & Japan doing what they did were the result of harsh treatment through the Treaty of Versailles for the Germans and the Convention of Kanagawa for the Japanese; actually funnily enough both prompted by the yanks
It's being reflected now but the only difference is trump is itching for a fight

[TheDemonLord]

Not really....what I'm trying to point out to you is totally relevant to current events happening between the two halfwits and your pointing out appeasement is relevant in the fact that in reference to WWII & the Nazis was a action too late, though an action by Chamberlain well after the Nazis had risen to power and Hitler had jumped to the helm

Both instances of Germany & Japan doing what they did were the result of harsh treatment through the Treaty of Versailles for the Germans and the Convention of Kanagawa for the Japanese; actually funnily enough both prompted by the yanks
It's being reflected now but the only difference is trump is itching for a fight

I see your point, tis interesting - and I think it's very fair to say that there were many factors (as you reference) that aided such a rise, but with Germany at least - they were not in a position militarily to threaten the British Empire in the early 1930s - and this was when the warning signs were there.

from 1935-1939, regardless of the causal factors that got them to that point (which you are referencing, but I'm not arguing your interpretation), Willfull blindness (appeasement) allowed Chaos to enter.

Now, in so far as Trump vs NK - I think your assessment is ignoring a few salient points, which summarised are:

Every other US president has let NK get to the point they are in now:

Nuclear armed, with a delivery system and a young, impulsive psychopath, whose 'advisors' are sycophantic yesmen (through no fault of their own mind)
Who has been raised in a completely ideologically indoctrinated country.

At least his father knew of a time before the hell-hole they created.

[oldrider]

It's not so much Trump he is only doing as he is told and being used as a scapegoat - look beyond him, at who he really works for, for why and what? . dudes!

[T.W.R]

I see your point, tis interesting - and I think it's very fair to say that there were many factors (as you reference) that aided such a rise, but with Germany at least - they were not in a position militarily to threaten the British Empire in the early 1930s - and this was when the warning signs were there.

from 1935-1939, regardless of the causal factors that got them to that point (which you are referencing, but I'm not arguing your interpretation), Willfull blindness (appeasement) allowed Chaos to enter.

You should really dig a bit deeper about things.
Germany or more a German scientist Braun was developing the idea of rockets for space in the 20s, the German Military adopted the idea in 1931 a couple of years before Hitler became chancellor and their weapons technology was well in advance of anyone else by the time WWII started. Even though they weren't used till late in the war the VI & VII rockets were the 1st intercontinental missiles the world had seen. The VII was the grandfather design of the scud missile (that should give you idea of how advanced it was), even NASA adopted the design for some time with their development ideas.
The Germans were the masters of mechanised warfare that's why they did so much damage in very short time and that development didn't happen on a overnight think tank it was well orchestrated & refined over a long time.

Casual factors what fucking planet are you on? the country was crippled by what had been imposed on them after WWI and the secondary punch inflicted by the depression as well. the foundation of the Nazi party stemmed from actual standard run of the mill blue collar workers who were desperate, it only morphed into the rabid dog with the psychopath and his delusions in its future years. The appeasement as I said was an action too late, the chaos had already begun...the dog was on a vendetta.

This current shit could easily head a similar direction

[oldrider]

You should really dig a bit deeper about things.
Germany or more a German scientist Braun was developing the idea of rockets for space in the 20s, the German Military adopted the idea in 1931 a couple of years before Hitler became chancellor and their weapons technology was well in advance of anyone else by the time WWII started. Even though they weren't used till late in the war the VI & VII rockets were the 1st intercontinental missiles the world had seen. The VII was the grandfather design of the scud missile (that should give you idea of how advanced it was), even NASA adopted the design for some time with their development ideas.
The Germans were the masters of mechanised warfare that's why they did so much damage in very short time and that development didn't happen on a overnight think tank it was well orchestrated & refined over a long time.

Casual factors what fucking planet are you on? the country was crippled by what had been imposed on them after WWI and the secondary punch inflicted by the depression as well. the foundation of the Nazi party stemmed from actual standard run of the mill blue collar workers who were desperate, it only morphed into the rabid dog with the psychopath and his delusions in its future years. The appeasement as I said was an action too late, the chaos had already begun...the dog was on a vendetta.

This current shit could easily head a similar direction

Not to forget that "Judea Declares War on Germany" on March 24, 1933 well before WW2. this had a profound effect on Germany!

Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Nazi_boycott_of_1933 There is much more (suppressed?) information available on this subject.

[pritch]

Would you be happy standing on the side lines watching Genocides, Barbaric Civil wars, flagrant Human rights violations by totalitarian despots?

Only if they've got a lot of oil. Like Saudi Arabia.

[T.W.R]

Not to forget that "Judea Declares War on Germany" on March 24, 1933 well before WW2. this had a profound effect on Germany!

Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Nazi_boycott_of_1933 There is much more (suppressed?) information available on this subject.

Bit slow off the mark John that all transpired after the rot had set in, though good of you to use the heading the British press used to sensationalise what was taking place and yet again an act provoked by American Jews to activate awareness

[Swoop]

Correct. The cunts were doing it in our hood, and no sign of an invasion.

The world forgets the terrorist actions of the French State (not a "revolutionary" group, either) in New Zealand.
All of the superpowers went rather silent.

Neville Chamberlain.

Now there is a classic dickhead.
Hops out of a plane waving a sheet of paper declaring "peace in our time", then declares war on the biggest military power on the planet and immediately resigns then fucks off into obscurity.

[James Deuce]

You should really dig a bit deeper about things.
Germany or more a German scientist Braun was developing the idea of rockets for space in the 20s, the German Military adopted the idea in 1931 a couple of years before Hitler became chancellor and their weapons technology was well in advance of anyone else by the time WWII started. Even though they weren't used till late in the war the VI & VII rockets were the 1st intercontinental missiles the world had seen. The VII was the grandfather design of the scud missile (that should give you idea of how advanced it was), even NASA adopted the design for some time with their development ideas.
The Germans were the masters of mechanised warfare that's why they did so much damage in very short time and that development didn't happen on a overnight think tank it was well orchestrated & refined over a long time.

Casual factors what fucking planet are you on? the country was crippled by what had been imposed on them after WWI and the secondary punch inflicted by the depression as well. the foundation of the Nazi party stemmed from actual standard run of the mill blue collar workers who were desperate, it only morphed into the rabid dog with the psychopath and his delusions in its future years. The appeasement as I said was an action too late, the chaos had already begun...the dog was on a vendetta.

This current shit could easily head a similar direction

The V1 is more correctly described as a barely-guided cruise missile and the V2 a medium range ballistic missile. Neither were Inter-continental in nature. Because we live in the middle of nowhere, it's a bit difficult to grok that the distance between northern France where the V1 launch sites were to start with and London is a bit like Auckland to Hamilton.

Russia fired a V2 at the moon and actually hit it. That was probably the V2's greatest moment, but we only hear about comparatively timid efforts made in the US. Tsiolkovsky was a better rocket engineer than von Braun but had to fight hard for every resource, rather than the never-ending stream of $6000 toilets and $800 hammers the US military-led space programme got to play with up until people got bored with the moon landings.

I agree with your analysis of the mood in Germany prior to 1933 too. All Hitler had to do as chancellor was borrow enough money to get an industrial programme underway to make it look like he'd delivered on his campaign promises. Then people didn't think all that hard about the wilder extremes of policy that began to happen once Hindenburg died, so logn as they weren't affected directly.

[TheDemonLord]

You should really dig a bit deeper about things.
Germany or more a German scientist Braun was developing the idea of rockets for space in the 20s, the German Military adopted the idea in 1931 a couple of years before Hitler became chancellor and their weapons technology was well in advance of anyone else by the time WWII started. Even though they weren't used till late in the war the VI & VII rockets were the 1st intercontinental missiles the world had seen. The VII was the grandfather design of the scud missile (that should give you idea of how advanced it was), even NASA adopted the design for some time with their development ideas.

"This proves our germans were better than the Russian's germans"

V1 and V2 were massive leaps in technology - but they didn't win a war, did they? Case in point the T34 tank vs the Tiger and Panther - arguably the Tiger and the Panther were better tanks, but weren't able to be produced in enough numbers to impact the outcome.

The Bismark and Tirpitz - The Gneisnau and Scharnhost - All very powerful Battleships, but again, that is 4 vs the entire Royal Navy (which had something like 20+ Battleship/Battlecruisers I think)

My point being that the Advanced weaponary is good, but you need it in sufficient quantities to effect the battle - as you say, too little, too late.

The Germans were the masters of mechanised warfare that's why they did so much damage in very short time and that development didn't happen on a overnight think tank it was well orchestrated & refined over a long time.

For sure - but the major rebuilding of the Wehrmacht started around 1935...

Casual factors what fucking planet are you on? the country was crippled by what had been imposed on them after WWI and the secondary punch inflicted by the depression as well. the foundation of the Nazi party stemmed from actual standard run of the mill blue collar workers who were desperate, it only morphed into the rabid dog with the psychopath and his delusions in its future years. The appeasement as I said was an action too late, the chaos had already begun...the dog was on a vendetta.

it only morphed into the rabid dog with the psychopath and his delusions in its future years.

Exactly - and up until that point, it could have been saved - it was really post 1935, when Germany began re-building it's military, when it REALLY became a threat.

If WW2 had started in 1935, it wouldn't have been WW2, it probably would have barely lasted a year, I seem to remember a quote by Hitler himself saying that if he was to start a War in Europe, he wanted 10 more years to build up a fleet to rival and challenge the Royal Navy.

This current shit could easily head a similar direction

Tis a risk to be sure - but again - before NK had Rhetoric only, now they have Rhetoric and an ability to deliver a Nuclear weapon

[James Deuce]

"This proves our germans were better than the Russian's germans"

V1 and V2 were massive leaps in technology - but they didn't win a war, did they? Case in point the T34 tank vs the Tiger and Panther - arguably the Tiger and the Panther were better tanks, but weren't able to be produced in enough numbers to impact the outcome.

The Bismark and Tirpitz - The Gneisnau and Scharnhost - All very powerful Battleships, but again, that is 4 vs the entire Royal Navy (which had something like 20+ Battleship/Battlecruisers I think)

My point being that the Advanced weaponary is good, but you need it in sufficient quantities to effect the battle - as you say, too little, too late.



For sure - but the major rebuilding of the Wehrmacht started around 1935...







Exactly - and up until that point, it could have been saved - it was really post 1935, when Germany began re-building it's military, when it REALLY became a threat.

If WW2 had started in 1935, it wouldn't have been WW2, it probably would have barely lasted a year, I seem to remember a quote by Hitler himself saying that if he was to start a War in Europe, he wanted 10 more years to build up a fleet to rival and challenge the Royal Navy.



Tis a risk to be sure - but again - before NK had Rhetoric only, now they have Rhetoric and an ability to deliver a Nuclear weapon

The Gneisnau and Scharnhost were heavy Cruisers. The British fleet complied with the 1923 Washington Treaty and their newer Battleships and Battlecruisers were heavily compromised as a result, and the refit of their WW1-era Battleships left them underpowered and underarmed. The only relevant large surface warship by the start of WWII were Fleet Carriers, but the major powers took a couple of years to understand that. In the meantime German submarines caused a nightmare that is difficult for us to understand because we don't think about warfare in terms of large scale global logistics over a long period of time. If WWIII started now, we'd all be dead by Christmas so the things that were drivers during WWII just aren't relevant.

WWII started in 1933, but our peculiarly White ethnocentric historical constructs just can't encompass a massive land war in Asia as anything important. If the European (lets ignore the Iberian peninsula for now) part of WWII started in 1935 it would have ended in a year alright with Hitler holding a big chunk of central Europe following an Armistice leaving him allied with Spain and Italy and with the resources to build a resilient industrial base. The lack of stomach for war following WW1 is not something that is part of our culture, much the same way a middle class anti-vax mother wouldn't give her kid a polio shot because she's never seen a polio victim up close.