Poverty measure ... doesn't make sense to me

[Graystone]

To quote someone else I'm fond of:

"You take a mortal man
And put him in control
Watch him become a god
Watch people's heads a'roll"

Make love, not war!

"It can make you better
It can change you slowly
Give you everything you want, ask for nothing in return
In the blink of an eye, the hint of a smile
In the way you say goodbye, in every time you find me"

[mashman]

Collective or individual? Will it be the chinese individual we all blame when shit goes wrong, that ends up having to do all the digging?

You still haven't got round to answering the difference between faith and enlightenment btw; an inability to do so obviously indicates the former condition.

I'll say it once so that we're clear. I don't respond to your questions on purpose.

[Graystone]

I'll say it once so that we're clear. I don't respond to your questions on purpose.

I'd have preferred if you (and the original trump too) focused more on your cause than on yourself. But you do you, I guess.

[mashman]

I'd have preferred if you (and the original trump too) focused more on your cause than on yourself. But you do you, I guess.

... You would have preferred if I focused on something other than me ... fuckin priceless. But hey, some projections are near impossible to hide when you're an arsehole. Kudos for coming out of the closet in such spectacularly hypocritical fashion.

[Graystone]

... You would have preferred if I focused on something other than me ... fuckin priceless. But hey, some projections are near impossible to hide when you're an arsehole. Kudos for coming out of the closet in such spectacularly hypocritical fashion.

It is simple, I've asked a number of times what an RBE is, and other questions to specific to your version of communism; yet you only engage people by calling them and their ideas wrong and ignorant, while promoting your own as enlightened.

I'm not sure why you have responded to my posts in such a combative fashion, interactions like this are why I did not bother getting login or posting on this site for so long.

[mashman]

It is simple, I've asked a number of times what an RBE is, and other questions to specific to your version of communism; yet you only engage people by calling them and their ideas wrong and ignorant, while promoting your own as enlightened.

I'm not sure why you have responded to my posts in such a combative fashion, interactions like this are why I did not bother getting login or posting on this site for so long.

@promoting my own as enlightened.

I haven't responded to any of your posts in a combative fashion in the slightest. Your projection is merely 1 reason why I choose not to engage with you. There's also your hypocrisy. Your assumptions. And don't forget the petted lip. Awwwwwwww pet lamb, is no one answering your questions. I have no need to hold your hand. Welcome to KB. Get used to it.

[Graystone]

@promoting my own as enlightened.

I haven't responded to any of your posts in a combative fashion in the slightest. Your projection is merely 1 reason why I choose not to engage with you. There's also your hypocrisy. Your assumptions. And don't forget the petted lip. Awwwwwwww pet lamb, is no one answering your questions. I have no need to hold your hand. Welcome to KB. Get used to it.

Best of luck gaining followers for your cause with those attitudes! FYI, if you do not want someone to 'project' a combative tone to your posts, not calling them an arsehole and hypocrite is a pretty good start.

As an aside (since you still insist on making this about you), when I posted about you earlier in the thread I hoped to be proven wrong about knowing your type. It is clear you are one of the dreamers who has decided to choose between reality and his dream, rather than making the two meet. For this you have nothing but my sympathies and pity.

[Woodman]

@promoting my own as enlightened.

I haven't responded to any of your posts in a combative fashion in the slightest. Your projection is merely 1 reason why I choose not to engage with you. There's also your hypocrisy. Your assumptions. And don't forget the petted lip. Awwwwwwww pet lamb, is no one answering your questions. I have no need to hold your hand. Welcome to KB. Get used to it.

Speaking of assumptions. What about yours about human nature? I know this RBE isn't actually a thing, but jeez you need to be a bit more open minded about any objections.

[mashman]

Best of luck gaining followers for your cause with those attitudes! FYI, if you do not want someone to 'project' a combative tone to your posts, not calling them an arsehole and hypocrite is a pretty good start.

As an aside (since you still insist on making this about you), when I posted about you earlier in the thread I hoped to be proven wrong about knowing your type. It is clear you are one of the dreamers who has decided to choose between reality and his dream, rather than making the two meet. For this you have nothing but my sympathies and pity.

@trying to gain followers. You're funny. You read posts how you read them. I've told you there was no combative intent my post, yet you choose to believe otherwise. See the problem there? If you do, then yeah, we might actually be able to have a discussion should you genuinely wish more information. If you don't, then why the fuck would I bother with you?

Thanks. I appreciate your ill-founded sentiment.

Speaking of assumptions. What about yours about human nature? I know this RBE isn't actually a thing, but jeez you need to be a bit more open minded about any objections.

Nature v's Nurture... The Dunedin Experiment had some interesting things to say about that. As do many psychologists, anthropologists etc... i.e. there is no such thing as human nature, because everything is learned and behaviour is triggered by the environment under which a human being is nurtured. It's not my opinion, it's documented fact. We have no nature. We live, we die, every country in the world has different cultures/religions/rules that make us different to someone in another country. That's not nature, that's monkey see monkey do.

As such, I'm more than open minded about such things, but when one comes across someone such as yourself that is so deeply entrenched (dramatic phrase, don't spill your coffee) in an opposing view, things get icky. Icky to the point where I'll be told that I'm meaning this or saying that when I mean something different, or indeed that I'm being closed minded or combative and living in a fantasy land that has no bearing on reality whatsoever despite the mounting evidence to the contrary. It ain't my fault that you guys choose not to explore the things I state and would rather simply state that I'm being this or that and ignoring this and that because you guys think so, as that is what your preferred position at that given point in time is. Calling me closed does you no favours. However, I actually enjoy many of your posts as you seem to be able to ask a question and accept the answer given as an actual answer. That you deny that answer as invalid is entirely up to you. I cannot and will never try to convince you otherwise. I shall put forwards logical, reasonable and common sense points and then guess what? You get to make your own mind up. If a post sounds angry, then go, make a cup or tea, and come back and read it again once you've calmed down... coz you someone may be trolling you using language specifically posted to highlight just how stupid readers who don't actually want to learn anything coz the person might seem angry etc... The last person who apologised to me for their emotive rant was met with the response "It's ok, I listened to what you said not how you said it.". Some people need to do some serious growing up if they think that they're open minded and fold when confronted with what looks like conflict or a combative post... but no, they'd rather spin in the spin because that's what they came here to do. All entirely your choice and absolutely nothing to do with me other than the environment my words create. Le sigh.

[TheDemonLord]

@trying to gain followers. You're funny. You read posts how you read them. I've told you there was no combative intent my post, yet you choose to believe otherwise. See the problem there? If you do, then yeah, we might actually be able to have a discussion should you genuinely wish more information. If you don't, then why the fuck would I bother with you?

Thanks. I appreciate your ill-founded sentiment.

Once you call his Beloved RBE for the Communism it really is (fun Fact - Fresco, whom Mashie already brought up earlier in the Thread and the creator of the RBE concept attended Communist League - although he was ejected for critiquing Marx...) the insults, refusals to engage and general grandstanding happens.

I actually think Mashie deep down knows that it's in the same philosophical tree as Marxism, Communism etc. I also think that deep down he knows it's doomed to the same failure - and that's why when you touch that exposed nerve he goes from the rational Mashman that used to be up for Debate to the pious asshat that we currently have.

Nature v's Nurture... The Dunedin Experiment had some interesting things to say about that. As do many psychologists, anthropologists etc... i.e. there is no such thing as human nature, because everything is learned and behaviour is triggered by the environment under which a human being is nurtured. It's not my opinion, it's documented fact. We have no nature. We live, we die, every country in the world has different cultures/religions/rules that make us different to someone in another country. That's not nature, that's monkey see monkey do.

Ask him which Psychologists and Anthropologist...

And I bet he'll cite multiple ones whose major body of work was all before circa 1970 or fringe researchers post 1970. The current consensus is that there is such a thing as Human Nature (refer to the work of Steven Pinker for example)

And for bonus points - he says that ever country has a different culture, religion and rules - which in one sense is correct - however what he fails to note (whether through ignorance or deliberate omission) is that there are some universal common concepts that can be found across all of them (that would be Human Nature):

- A Prohibition against killing someone belonging to your tribe/family/city/group
- A Prohibition against lies
- A validation of the right to self-defense.
- A Protection of breeding age Females (although this one sometimes goes a bit wonky)

[Ocean1]

And for bonus points - he says that ever country has a different culture, religion and rules - which in one sense is correct - however what he fails to note (whether through ignorance or deliberate omission) is that there are some universal common concepts that can be found across all of them (that would be Human Nature):

- A Prohibition against killing someone belonging to your tribe/family/city/group
- A Prohibition against lies
- A validation of the right to self-defense.
- A Protection of breeding age Females (although this one sometimes goes a bit wonky)

Not to mention the propensity to occasionally pretend that all pigs should be equally rewarded. A fantasy that sometimes persists for as long as a couple of decades before reality asserts itself, usually killing a significant portion of the population in the process.

Is it any wonder he's desperate to distance his communist ideology from it's historical utter failure?

[Akzle]

):

- A Prohibition against killing someone belonging to your tribe/family/city/group
- A Prohibition against lies
- A validation of the right to self-defense.
- A Protection of breeding age Females (although this one sometimes goes a bit wonky)

never been to india or asia huh?

[TheDemonLord]

never been to india or asia huh?

I think you misunderstood what I meant...

[Akzle]

I think you misunderstood what I meant...

i think you misunderstand the meanings of the words you used, then.

[TheDemonLord]

i think you misunderstand the meanings of the words you used, then.

No, I really don't.

I suspect you are taking umbrage with the last one - However - some of the rules that on the surface would seem to directly contradict that - generally have conformity to other things that are pretty much universal (namely to do sexual fidelity which itself seems to stem from concerns around parentage and inheritance).

I did say that it sometimes goes a bit wonky