Poverty measure ... doesn't make sense to me

[mashman]

As does any economy or political system, it is only the 'afford' that changes. Capitalism you can only afford what you can earn, communism you can only afford what you are told, in an RBE you can only afford your share of what everybody else produces.

To presume you can judge who passes and who fails shows just how authoritarian your regime; fuck, I've figured it out! it's REGIME Based Economy! the regime is the resource.

Regime Based Economy is actually quite funny. LMAO@at judgement. That's just evangelising your preferred outcomes.

[Graystone]

Regime Based Economy is actually quite funny. LMAO@at judgement. That's just evangelising your preferred outcomes.

It's all true as well. So I'll stick to a Reality Based Economy thanks.

[Woodman]

It would. Ironically I want you to be a clone of me. Let me explain before you start to build any form of preconception as to what I mean by that.

What is a clone of me? Oh, and before you or anyone starts to think, "Way to take it off-topic again mash.", it's all related. And I do mean ALL of it. Poverty is not someone's opinion. It exists in great numbers around the world. The relativity of it given access to resources in your own locale (street/community/village/region/village etc...) is not relevant in many ways. That the poverty exists i.e. lack of access to enough food/housing/power/fuel/transport etc... is the issue. Don't ignore that fact simply because I'm typing it. That'd be exceptionally fuckin stupid. And exceptionally really isn't a strong enough word to convey just how ridiculous it is to ignore something simply because of the people "presenting" it i.e. Mike Hosking/Gareth Morgan/Ocean/TDL/Husaberk/BDM/Ax/Shamubeel Eaqub/John Key etc... Poverty exists. Let's do this .

A clone of me is someone who realises that poverty exists and that will consider anything and everything that is put forwards as evidence and measured against what I can see before my eyes. That percentages of people in poverty can drop, it does not automatically follow that the numbers in poverty has dropped, given that a population may have actually grown at a rate that skews the positive yay yay we're curing poverty, the numbers have dropped coz the percentage has dropped. And that's before you consider the veracity of the data being provided that asserts that position. Questionable at best, because it is a statistical calculation, and the slightest change in the right weighting will alter the data dramatically. I know this, because I've played with those kinds of calculations and watched how the data could easily be tweaked. That's 1 thing that a clone of would know.

A clone of me would be a peaceful individual and so on and so forth. I'll stop there instead of rhyming off several thousand of other examples of what a clone of me would be like.

To round things off. Given that you are not your nature, if you can get over that great... but then you're denying the science of the Dunedin Experiment with all of its thousands of researchers that cross just about every discipline there is. It's new thinking in regards to what has come before, because we did believe that there was such a thing called human nature. We found out to the contrary. Whether we were deliberately lied to or not is up for debate. Personally I reckon we have been really rather serious lied to in way too many ways for it all to be considered an accident, but actually choose to act as if mistakes were made because the money changed the outcome. Either way, we've ended up at a situation were the best study in town provided information that states that it's nurture, not nature that defines us. In the very same way, psycopaths are more than likely a product of their environment. Again, and so on and so forth.

There are 10's of millions of RBE advocates all over the globe. They have families. They need a job. They need to do this and that, because they actually have a life that it isn't practical to simply drop given the economic outcomes that would accompany that decision. So them not all "rising" is hardly surprising. That and it is highly likely that a lot of those people would understand that suddenly moving towards an RBE without consideration that that very action could cause serious economic damage and bring about economic sanction and/or embargo etc... Would you really be surprised that they're not "rising" that way either? I'll tell you why though. It's because they're waiting for you to figure it out for yourself and accept that there's a lot of people on this planet, even in NZ, that would happily move towards a planet that doesn't use money. They each have their individual reasons for wanting that. Very sane ones... like wanting to eradicate poverty. By way of example... some genius posted up a poll that showed that over 50% of that forum would happily arse money and move towards something better. I didn't hypnotise them all with my dazzling personality innit, they made their own minds up about it

I'll stop there. The picture is way to large to explain without you innerstanding any of the above yourself. Not learning that what I said was true simply, but that looking around you you can see that changing things in certain ways would actually make things better. You choice love.

Love n hugs

Gordon1111

I think we are headed towards something like your planet whether we like it or not. I really don't see the current system not failing.

[mashman]

I think we are headed towards something like your planet whether we like it or not. I really don't see the current system not failing.

Such a thing has happened before (not the "your planet" thing, but the current system failing). I'm just hoping that we don't end up with communism underpinned by a UBI. That's happened before too and it sucked by the sounds of things. I guess we'll find out sooner or later.

[Swoop]

Dude, ALL communism is a dictatorship.

It certainly seems there's a link between endemic socialism and professions that have a tenuous link between production and remuneration...

Those countries where "everyone is equal" yet their "elected leaders" quietly state that some are more equal than others...
Trust me, academia is riddled with socialists and communists. Hearing the term "comrade" used regularly is not uncommon.

Perhaps, do you know what and RBE is?

Since you are new here, I'll explain a simple fact. Katman will never answer a direct question.
All mouth and no trousers.

[Ocean1]

Trust me, academia is riddled with socialists and communists. Hearing the term "comrade" used regularly is not uncommon.

Which sort of explains why their union's current squeeze is promising them they don't really have to show how they provide anything their clients want, it's all just been a misguided rort by teh bogeymans.

[Graystone]

I'm just hoping that we don't end up with communism underpinned by a UBI. That's happened before too and it sucked by the sounds of things. I guess we'll find out sooner or later.

Everything you've described (which admittedly is very little) about your RBE points to exactly that as being the only realistic alternative to a totalitarian regime.

Since you are new here, I'll explain a simple fact. Katman will never answer a direct question.
All mouth and no trousers.

Similarly disillusioned like mashman or a different issue entirely?

[mashman]

Everything you've described (which admittedly is very little) about your RBE points to exactly that as being the only realistic alternative to a totalitarian regime.

Similarly disillusioned like mashman or a different issue entirely?

What I have described is absolutely nothing given that it encompasses an entire economy. A communistic UBI isn't a kick in the arse of a totalitarian regime.

Both with a severe case of humanity based on logic, reason and common sense. We simply evolved beyond you knuckle draggers, and have a healthy skepticism for that which authority minions deem as conspiracy theory, coz government says (tis one of the reasons I'd like to see RBE as it has no government). As such, there is no issue, just evolution baby.

[Graystone]

What I have described is absolutely nothing given that it encompasses an entire economy. A communistic UBI isn't a kick in the arse of a totalitarian regime.

Both with a severe case of humanity based on logic, reason and common sense. We simply evolved beyond you knuckle draggers, and have a healthy skepticism for that which authority minions deem as conspiracy theory, coz government says (tis one of the reasons I'd like to see RBE as it has no government). As such, there is no issue, just evolution baby.

An RBE has no government? so it is simple anarchy then, why not just call it that? Ye I know you have faith everyone will somehow base their production and consumption on what is best for everyone, but if there is no govt it is anarchy, by very definition, and not an economy at all.

[Ocean1]

I know you have faith everyone will somehow base their production and consumption on what is best for everyone

I think you'll find there's a committee involved, advising what you can and can't buy and sell. And for how much. There may or may not be black shirts involved. Either way neither mushmate or katflap will be telling telling you anything you need to know about economics.

[mashman]

An RBE has no government? so it is simple anarchy then, why not just call it that?

Yes an RBE has no government. You answered your own question.

Ye I know you have faith everyone will somehow base their production and consumption on what is best for everyone, but if there is no govt it is anarchy, by very definition, and not an economy at all.

And you have just proven that it isn't anarchy yourself, because there isn't an economic factor in anarchy. Just to be clear, there is an economy with Resource Based Economy. It's kind of in the title... but some people need those sorts of things spelled out it seems. Here: Resource Based E.C.O.N.O.M.Y.

Have you been smoking something you shouldn't have. Or are you really that stupid? That's not a judgement, hence the question mark duh, it's an observation given your last effort at trying to find out what an RBE is. Why don't you go read/watch a little bit about RBE. Yes, an RBE has no government.

[Woodman]

Yes an RBE has no government. You answered your own question.



And you have just proven that it isn't anarchy yourself, because there isn't an economic factor in anarchy. Just to be clear, there is an economy with Resource Based Economy. It's kind of in the title... but some people need those sorts of things spelled out it seems. Here: Resource Based E.C.O.N.O.M.Y.

Have you been smoking something you shouldn't have. Or are you really that stupid? That's not a judgement, hence the question mark duh, it's an observation given your last effort at trying to find out what an RBE is. Why don't you go read/watch a little bit about RBE. Yes, an RBE has no government.

What about laws?

[mashman]

What about laws?

Do no harm. That's about it really. What happens under any given circumstance I can't really say, but the thought of going to jail and leaving behind your freedom, real freedom, would have to see you break some "societal taboo", coz you won't be committing a crime for money would ya? No money should see financially related crime disappear. Ironically, that'd let the bankers and politicians off the hook. As time moves on and as government becomes less needed, there'd be no real reason to have laws and the further we move towards RBE, the less likely the majority of laws will be required, therefore less need for "administration/policing". No one will need to commit a crime to get what they want. To the point where I envisage only 1 law, and it'll likely be unwritten given that there's no government i.e. Do no harm.

[Graystone]

Yes an RBE has no government. You answered your own question.



And you have just proven that it isn't anarchy yourself, because there isn't an economic factor in anarchy. Just to be clear, there is an economy with Resource Based Economy. It's kind of in the title... but some people need those sorts of things spelled out it seems. Here: Resource Based E.C.O.N.O.M.Y.

Have you been smoking something you shouldn't have. Or are you really that stupid? That's not a judgement, hence the question mark duh, it's an observation given your last effort at trying to find out what an RBE is. Why don't you go read/watch a little bit about RBE. Yes, an RBE has no government.

So what is the economic factor in an RBE then? it has no govt, so there is no means to ensure an economy is uniform and adopted. This is anarchy by very definition, be it theft, barter, charity, or plentiful giving cannot be controlled by your RBE.

Not sorry if me digging a little deeper than the name is inconvenient, but too many politicians these days try to sell an idea based on outcomes with no basis in realistic implementation.

I have read about an RBE, it's a capitalist economy based on a states raw resource with little value add. All three terms are clearly defined and make a lot of sense. The system you are proposing has not explained either the resource, nor the economy.

[mashman]

So what is the economic factor in an RBE then? it has no govt, so there is no means to ensure an economy is uniform and adopted. This is anarchy by very definition, be it theft, barter, charity, or plentiful giving cannot be controlled by your RBE.

Not sorry if me digging a little deeper than the name is inconvenient, but too many politicians these days try to sell an idea based on outcomes with no basis in realistic implementation.

I have read about an RBE, it's a capitalist economy based on a states raw resource with little value add. All three terms are clearly defined and make a lot of sense. The system you are proposing has not explained either the resource, nor the economy.

... done.