Poverty measure ... doesn't make sense to me

[Akzle]

Why do you keep claiming I do not have the desire? and that I am unworthy of the details? Surely in a society which values freely shared information 'worthiness' would not be a factor.

So the point about historical outcomes it utterly irrelevant to either an RBE or a monarchy's ability to eradicate poverty, I'm glad we cleared that up. Monarchy is still the clear winner due to it having a realistic transition plan, all we need to do to get from here to a poverty free monarchy is replace politicians with monarchs; the rest of society, production, consumption, wealth and the economy can remain unchanged during this transition, then all shall reap the benefits of effective long term planning for the whole society (not just the major voting blocks) once the monarchy is established.

Feel free to share your transition plan so we can make an intelligent comparison between them...

vote akzle you pussy.

[Woodman]

you say that, like you're not already in it.

your existence is but your perception. what you credit for your perception, is up to you.

Thats why I said not MUCH of a leap.

[mashman]

yes but is it you-by-your-onesies sentience?
or some kind of mass consciousness?... a paradigm, if you will

Damned fine questions. Wonder if we'll leave it on long enough to find out

[mashman]

Why do you keep claiming I do not have the desire? and that I am unworthy of the details? Surely in a society which values freely shared information 'worthiness' would not be a factor.

So the point about historical outcomes it utterly irrelevant to either an RBE or a monarchy's ability to eradicate poverty, I'm glad we cleared that up. Monarchy is still the clear winner due to it having a realistic transition plan, all we need to do to get from here to a poverty free monarchy is replace politicians with monarchs; the rest of society, production, consumption, wealth and the economy can remain unchanged during this transition, then all shall reap the benefits of effective long term planning for the whole society (not just the major voting blocks) once the monarchy is established.

Feel free to share your transition plan so we can make an intelligent comparison between them...

Why? Because I choose to. I thought you might have figured that out by now. Sorry for giving you too much credit. But I dearly hope you enjoy my hypocrisy. It's much better than pretending that I said certain things that I didn't. We're not in that society. And even in an RBE I would have every right to withhold details and information from anyone I choose.

Why are you talking about monarchy when you were asking about "my" RBE? Let alone making the judgement of RBE v's Monarchy when you only understand one side of it by your own admission. You get why I ain't sharing with you yet?

you've clearly made your mind up already, so no need to compare anything. Thanks for the giggles though.

[Graystone]

Why? Because I choose to. I thought you might have figured that out by now. Sorry for giving you too much credit. But I dearly hope you enjoy my hypocrisy. It's much better than pretending that I said certain things that I didn't. We're not in that society. And even in an RBE I would have every right to withhold details and information from anyone I choose.

Why are you talking about monarchy when you were asking about "my" RBE? Let alone making the judgement of RBE v's Monarchy when you only understand one side of it by your own admission. You get why I ain't sharing with you yet?

you've clearly made your mind up already, so no need to compare anything. Thanks for the giggles though.

Of course I have it figured out, it is just amusing to see you time and time again be the politician you claim to rally against.

You asked what other systems could eliminate poverty, so I answered (the answer was monarchy, among many others). The thing is, I do understand your system as it has been presented, which is all you can reasonably ask for. You do not seem to understand that withholding information does not give you the right to claim your opinion is any more valid; yet you continue to do so; again showing you to be the politician...

Have I? What makes you say that?

[Swoop]

What NZ Universities currently offer a degree in Beneficiary-ism?

Any that offer a Batchelor of Arts...

[mashman]

Of course I have it figured out, it is just amusing to see you time and time again be the politician you claim to rally against.

You asked what other systems could eliminate poverty, so I answered (the answer was monarchy, among many others). The thing is, I do understand your system as it has been presented, which is all you can reasonably ask for. You do not seem to understand that withholding information does not give you the right to claim your opinion is any more valid; yet you continue to do so; again showing you to be the politician...

Have I? What makes you say that?

I Am more than happy to pass it on to those I choose to pass it on to. Just as you are more than happy to see me as a politician.

I did, and I gave monarchy a low probability of achieving those things. That's right, you didn't understand what was presented. Only your perception of what you thought was being conveyed. As such, you will never understand anything that I present to you. You're still not getting that picture though eh. And neither you should. You should fight for your right to party. Even if you are fighting Fight Club stylez. bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa@withholding information does not give you the right to claim your opinion is any more valid. Your rights supersede mine huh. Genius. That's one of the best so far. I'm only holding that information from you for that reason too . A sane mind would have accepted that the first time it was posted. Yet you persist in a really ugly way. Goading? Is that the limit of your wit in order to get your own way? An adult would have asked with open eyes. The adolescent manipulates to get that which he wishes.

What makes me say that? Really?

Monarchy is still the clear winner due to it having a realistic transition plan, all we need to do to get from here to a poverty free monarchy is replace politicians with monarchs; the rest of society, production, consumption, wealth and the economy can remain unchanged during this transition, then all shall reap the benefits of effective long term planning for the whole society (not just the major voting blocks) once the monarchy is established.

What makes me say that, is that you stated it quite clearly. You could at least try to keep up with what you so firmly believe.

[Graystone]

I Am more than happy to pass it on to those I choose to pass it on to. Just as you are more than happy to see me as a politician.

I did, and I gave monarchy a low probability of achieving those things. That's right, you didn't understand what was presented. Only your perception of what you thought was being conveyed. As such, you will never understand anything that I present to you. You're still not getting that picture though eh. And neither you should. You should fight for your right to party. Even if you are fighting Fight Club stylez. bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa@withholding information does not give you the right to claim your opinion is any more valid. Your rights supersede mine huh. Genius. That's one of the best so far. I'm only holding that information from you for that reason too . A sane mind would have accepted that the first time it was posted. Yet you persist in a really ugly way. Goading? Is that the limit of your wit in order to get your own way? An adult would have asked with open eyes. The adolescent manipulates to get that which he wishes.

What makes me say that? Really?



What makes me say that, is that you stated it quite clearly. You could at least try to keep up with what you so firmly believe.

Do you think people incapable of changing their mind as more information is presented? I find this (that they can) to be fundamental to the idea of freely shared information. People can all have opinions just as valid as your own, if you think their opinion to be wrong, simply supply them the same information you find to be so compelling. The notion that some are simply unworthy of even being given such information is utterly abhorrent. In this your RBE is very different from the likes of The Venus Project.

My mind is not 'made up', as the saying goes, I am simply making a judgement (and yes it is a valid one) based on the information at hand...

[mashman]

Do you think people incapable of changing their mind as more information is presented? I find this (that they can) to be fundamental to the idea of freely shared information. People can all have opinions just as valid as your own, if you think their opinion to be wrong, simply supply them the same information you find to be so compelling. The notion that some are simply unworthy of even being given such information is utterly abhorrent. In this your RBE is very different from the likes of The Venus Project.

My mind is not 'made up', as the saying goes, I am simply making a judgement (and yes it is a valid one) based on the information at hand...

Of course people can change their minds as more information is presented. I've found that too. @abhorrent and deciding that "my" RBE, despite you admittedly knowing nothing about it, is very different from the likes of TVP. I know a couple of people who have spoken with Mr Fresco and found that they were exceptionally closed minded to certain approaches and wouldn't even discuss what they had to say further. So, actually, given the evidence, you're wrong, again.

Yes it is. I have decided that it is based on the information at hand. Yet you say you need more information? ... and then you go on to make a judgement based on what you know despite the fact that you also know that there's more information to be had, but instead of postponing your judgement til you have all the facts like any normal person, well, . I picked how useless you were from the start. You went on to prove it and we ended up with the only conclusion that could be drawn i.e. you've made your mind up. You clearly stated it in your own words, and now you're backtracking. It's really isn't tempting at all to have to deal with your inconsistencies... so I spared myself the trouble, as well as you the embarrassment fumbling in the dark at something you have proven to be incapable of understanding. A simple thanks would do.

[Graystone]

Of course people can change their minds as more information is presented. I've found that too. @abhorrent and deciding that "my" RBE, despite you admittedly knowing nothing about it, is very different from the likes of TVP. I know a couple of people who have spoken with Mr Fresco and found that they were exceptionally closed minded to certain approaches and wouldn't even discuss what they had to say further. So, actually, given the evidence, you're wrong, again.

Yes it is. I have decided that it is based on the information at hand. Yet you say you need more information? ... and then you go on to make a judgement based on what you know despite the fact that you also know that there's more information to be had, but instead of postponing your judgement til you have all the facts like any normal person, well, . I picked how useless you were from the start. You went on to prove it and we ended up with the only conclusion that could be drawn i.e. you've made your mind up. You clearly stated it in your own words, and now you're backtracking. It's really isn't tempting at all to have to deal with your inconsistencies... so I spared myself the trouble, as well as you the embarrassment fumbling in the dark at something you have proven to be incapable of understanding. A simple thanks would do.

Cool, so present said information and change my mind.

Postponing judgement only makes sense when there is more information incoming. There isn't, so I didn't. Your assumption that I do not understand the information you have put forward is also quite poor, just accept that other people opinions are worthy, things get a lot simpler, The Venus Project is predicated on a similar value.

I'm always happy to change my mind as more info comes to light, you might choose to view this as backtracking, I just point to that first sentence in my post you quoted. This should also cause you to change your opinion that my mind had been made up, to 'backtrack' as you put it, clearly means it wasn't!

[mashman]

Cool, so present said information and change my mind.

Postponing judgement only makes sense when there is more information incoming. There isn't, so I didn't. Your assumption that I do not understand the information you have put forward is also quite poor, just accept that other people opinions are worthy, things get a lot simpler, The Venus Project is predicated on a similar value.

I'm always happy to change my mind as more info comes to light, you might choose to view this as backtracking, I just point to that first sentence in my post you quoted. This should also cause you to change your opinion that my mind had been made up, to 'backtrack' as you put it, clearly means it wasn't!

It's not up to me to change your mind. That's entirely up to you. Once you figure that out........ actually no.

You're saying that I don't accept other people's opinions? Whatever led you to think that? Given that I didn't outright write your Monarchy claim off. Which is, ironically, something you did with "my" RBE. I guess it's 1 rule for you and another rule for the other. As such, you're not worthy in any way shape or form to hear what I have to say. TVP may well be predicated on similar, but the reality is, as has been related by a couple of people I know that have directly confronted the man himself, has been to the contrary.

Congratulations and good luck with your progression towards changing your mind. You may as well drink in TVP given that "my" RBE is so incomprehensible. You still won't be able to change your mind though. You don't have the basic skills required to accomplish such a thing. You've had several pages to hold your judgement and be given the information you state you want, yet you've wasted that time with this little conversation instead. They are not the actions of someone who is curious enough about understanding something. I see no evidence of your ability to change your mind. None. Quite the opposite in fact as I have pointed out. But best of luck with that.

[Graystone]

It's not up to me to change your mind. That's entirely up to you. Once you figure that out........ actually no.

You're saying that I don't accept other people's opinions? Whatever led you to think that? Given that I didn't outright write your Monarchy claim off. Which is, ironically, something you did with "my" RBE. I guess it's 1 rule for you and another rule for the other. As such, you're not worthy in any way shape or form to hear what I have to say. TVP may well be predicated on similar, but the reality is, as has been related by a couple of people I know that have directly confronted the man himself, has been to the contrary.

Congratulations and good luck with your progression towards changing your mind. You may as well drink in TVP given that "my" RBE is so incomprehensible. You still won't be able to change your mind though. You don't have the basic skills required to accomplish such a thing. You've had several pages to hold your judgement and be given the information you state you want, yet you've wasted that time with this little conversation instead. They are not the actions of someone who is curious enough about understanding something. I see no evidence of your ability to change your mind. None. Quite the opposite in fact as I have pointed out. But best of luck with that.

Why do you assume it is me who needs to change my mind? Why not open yours instead?

Why do you say you didn't write off my monarchy claim but I did write off your RBE one?

To say someone is not worthy to hear what you have to say, is much the same as writing off their opinions I would think.

Don't be silly, I've asked multiple times for the information you continue to withhold, you can't blame me for it's lack.

[mashman]

Why do you assume it is me who needs to change my mind? Why not open yours instead?

Why do you say you didn't write off my monarchy claim but I did write off your RBE one?

To say someone is not worthy to hear what you have to say, is much the same as writing off their opinions I would think.

Don't be silly, I've asked multiple times for the information you continue to withhold, you can't blame me for it's lack.

bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Coz you did.

Not at all. As I have proven I listened to your opinion, got a feeling for what you were capable of, and decided not to continue sharing information with you. I suggest you stop thinking for other people, it doesn't serve you well... moreover it seems to illicit the response whereby the other party chooses to keep you at arms length... or at least keep you around for laughs.

I can, I did, I justified every single one of the reasons I chose not to engage with you. I even said "Congratulations and good luck with your progression towards changing your mind". I'm not blaming you for me withholding the information, that's not your fault. As I have stated multiple times, something you still haven't grasped yet, it is entirely down to me and my reasoning that I'm not sharing the information. But you keep validating those reasons... in a really really cool way though.

[Graystone]

bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

Coz you did.

Not at all. As I have proven I listened to your opinion, got a feeling for what you were capable of, and decided not to continue sharing information with you. I suggest you stop thinking for other people, it doesn't serve you well... moreover it seems to illicit the response whereby the other party chooses to keep you at arms length... or at least keep you around for laughs.

I can, I did, I justified every single one of the reasons I chose not to engage with you. I even said "Congratulations and good luck with your progression towards changing your mind". I'm not blaming you for me withholding the information, that's not your fault. As I have stated multiple times, something you still haven't grasped yet, it is entirely down to me and my reasoning that I'm not sharing the information. But you keep validating those reasons... in a really really cool way though.

I disagree, and find your presumption that you know what I think in order to make your strawman argument to be most unenlightened.

Still sounds a lot like you wrote off my opinion doesn't it?

Which are all unjustified by the simple notion that freely shared information must underpin such a Utopian Dream as your RBE outlines. Double standards and hypocrisy make for a politician... do be honest and let us know if you ever run for office eh! That would put the irony/hypocrisy/(probly deserves its own term) meter stratospheric!

[Woodman]

I disagree, and find your presumption that you know what I think in order to make your strawman argument to be most unenlightened.

Still sounds a lot like you wrote off my opinion doesn't it?

Which are all unjustified by the simple notion that freely shared information must underpin such a Utopian Dream as your RBE outlines. Double standards and hypocrisy make for a politician... do be honest and let us know if you ever run for office eh! That would put the irony/hypocrisy/(probly deserves its own term) meter stratospheric!

Lets just hope that mashman isn't charged with selling in an rbe to the populous. You would be off to the gulag for asking the wrong question.