The 2017 Election Thread

[husaberg]

The problem is that it is all guesswork because of the lack of policy that the marxists have put out so far.

Its not guess work that currently long term real estate investments are not taxed for the profit while bank deposits are though.

. And low rego costs

Not to mention he can claim all repairs and maintenance, depreciation on it in the interim period.....
Call it a tractor. Would actually work with a Lamborghini.
I might be wrong but pretty sure it was Labour that got rid of stamp duty and death duties.

[Crasherfromwayback]

But a valid one.

If it was so bad, then now's the time to "do it" while they are the gubbinment.


!

Then you'd moan like a stuck cunt about them raising the money elsewhere.

[sidecar bob]

I don't see why closing the CGT loophole should lead to fewer rentals available.

I do. . . . . . .

[husaberg]

I do. . . . . . .

Have you considered that a result of less uncontrolled and tax free speculation in the NZ property market, that people might be able to afford to buy rather than being forced to rent from the property speculators.

[Graystone]

And why do you think that Kiwis don't invest in business?



Compare the size of house that was typical for a baby boomer to own as their first house to the size of first house that most people are looking to buy.

I don't think you can lay all the trouble at the feet of those evil investors.

I put forward that there are some social factors to consider - such as more people studying at uni for 3-5 years vs gaining an apprenticeship. Also people are entering into a committed relationship later in life (thus delaying the associated benefits), people are flatting for longer, often under the auspices of saving for a deposit, but yet still finding the time, money and energy to 'party' and generally enjoy life. Not that I'm saying life shouldn't be enjoyed - I'm saying that to play the long game, often has a better net result.

It's interesting cause last week I bought a new car, and on the test drive, the Sales guy (who was only a few months older than me) and he made a glib comment about Auckland housing - and was surprised to know that I owned a house (well, 28.9% of it) and we chatted about it. We talked about the individual choices we had made and where they had taken us in our respective lives. He echoed many statements and situations I've heard from people of my generation and yet as we talked, it always seemed to come back to the choices we made, as opposed to some overarching Boogeyman.

I guess it's easier to blame the fat cat investors, than to take a good look at the parts of yourself you don't want to look at.

Compare the size of the attached land.
Compare the minimum size you are allowed to build under most covenants.
Compare the cost of the land.
They do not scale well with the mean number of years income required to purchase a house.

I'm looking at the difficulty of crossing the divide between 'fat cat investors' and 'unseemly selves' as you put it. I get that you can still own a house by making the 'right choices', but the number of 'right choices' has plummeted since baby boomers, certianly in part due to property investors/speculation.

[Graystone]

Have you considered that a result of less uncontrolled and tax free speculation in the NZ property market, that people might be able to afford to buy rather than being forced to rent from the property speculators.

Good point, yeh that would reduce the number of rentals available. Sounds like a good thing in that case.

[Ocean1]

It's not 1963 anymore, kiwis should wake up and invest in kiwi businesses to create wealth for the country, not just shift money around from rich to poor and back again. We've had significant foreign investment, so to go the profits...

I don't see why closing the CGT loophole should lead to fewer rentals available.

Not so much round here, we're still seeing prices double what the build price was less than ten years ago. With land an new build prices scaled to match. The only way the kids can afford to buy housing is help from the baby boomers when the purchase price is 5-10 years salary, instead of the 2-3 it was for their generation. How the fuck can you look at that situation, and not see anything wrong with it?

Like I said, Kiwis do invest in Kiwi businesses, their own. Demanding they invest their money where you want is a very socialist thing, though, to be sure.

Increasing taxes in ANY area decreases investment there. Bob's far from the only slumlord flogging off his rundown million dollar shack. If he's got any brains he'll be blowing the lot on hookers, off shore parties and bikes before Juicinda's tax working party notices it's gone.

What's the current build rice expressed as gdp/2M? Or in the old money hrs worked per sqft? I think you'll find it's moved fuck all in the last generation in spite of the proliferation of grasping bureaucrats, rapacious local authorities ratcheting up compliance costs and monopoly materials providers. Which is pretty much all I see wrong with the rice of houses.

I reckon if you arseholed all the rorts involved in building nowadays you could knock up that 900sqft clapboard bungalow you're talking about for about a quarter of the current mean build price.

[Ocean1]

I do. . . . . . .

Aye, me too, this time next month they'll all be gone.

I see a nice shiny new boat in my future. Ideally one registered elsewhere.

[husaberg]

Increasing taxes in ANY area decreases investment there. Bob's far from the only slumlord flogging off his rundown million dollar shack. If he's got any brains he'll be blowing the lot on hookers, off shore parties and bikes before Juicinda's tax working party notices it's gone.

.

So why was there not a peep out of you when the Nats increased GST then?
Could it be for the reasons I previously mentioned?
In case you haven't noticed more houses on the north island market is good, as you guys are always going on that the property shortage driving up the price.
Could it be that mass property speculation as a result of their not being a CGT was one of the leading drivers Aucklands property bubble?

[Graystone]

Like I said, Kiwis do invest in Kiwi businesses, their own. Demanding they invest their money where you want is a very socialist thing, though, to be sure.

Increasing taxes in ANY area decreases investment there. Bob's far from the only slumlord flogging off his rundown million dollar shack. If he's got any brains he'll be blowing the lot on hookers, off shore parties and bikes before Juicinda's tax working party notices it's gone.

What's the current build rice expressed as gdp/2M? Or in the old money hrs worked per sqft? I think you'll find it's moved fuck all in the last generation in spite of the proliferation of grasping bureaucrats, rapacious local authorities ratcheting up compliance costs and monopoly materials providers. Which is pretty much all I see wrong with the rice of houses.

I reckon if you arseholed all the rorts involved in building nowadays you could knock up that 900sqft clapboard bungalow you're talking about for about a quarter of the current mean build price.

Should, probably shouldn't be considered a demanding term...

Good, have you not been listening at all? we want to decrease investment and speculation in houses.

Well, income has been rising about 3%, house sizes about 2%, so as long as house prices are only rising about 5% you'd be spot on.

https://www.globalpropertyguide.com/.../Price-History

Whopsie daisy, looks like you're short about 2-5%, now 2% may not sound like much, but it only takes 35 years for that 2% to double the purchase price. Admittedly 35 years is longer than a generation, 25 years still results in a most certainly not fuck all, 65% increase.

That's data over the whole country btw, statistically relevant but who the fuck wants to live in Morrinsville.

[husaberg]

Well I would be too if my dad had stumped up a house for me.
Re the public health system. I currently have an injured wife & sick mother & have to say that the public health system is absolutely fucking brilliant compared to ten years ago, thanks to three terms under National.
My view is that currently, paying for additional health insurance is a complete rort & a waste of money, but maybe wait & see how fucked it is under a couple of terms with Labour before you all go chucking your policies away.

Your gut feeling is not really backed by the actual stats though is it. Don't be fooled by the National party subterfuge of calling them elective and then farming them out to the private sector.......

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/hea...initely--study
http://www.coveryours.co.nz/2016/10/...g-for-surgery/
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/nation...d-over-surgery

[Ocean1]

Should, probably shouldn't be considered a demanding term...

Good, have you not been listening at all? we want to decrease investment and speculation in houses.

Well, income has been rising about 3%, house sizes about 2%, so as long as house prices are only rising about 5% you'd be spot on.

https://www.globalpropertyguide.com/.../Price-History

Whopsie daisy, looks like you're short about 2-5%, now 2% may not sound like much, but it only takes 35 years for that 2% to double the purchase price. Admittedly 35 years is longer than a generation, 25 years still results in a most certainly not fuck all, 65% increase.

That's data over the whole country btw, statistically relevant but who the fuck wants to live in Morrinsville.

Oh I'm sure your preferences for how others spend their money is driven by the very best intentions. It always is.

You must have missed my point about less investment resulting in fewer assets.

And your arithmetic fails to describe the fact that while houses may now cost twice as much in terms of family income they are in fact well over twice the size. It also fails to address the fact that interest rates, (y'know, what actually drives housing ownership affordability) are at historic lows.

Again, if you pine for a low spec bungalow on a quarter acre then you might be well served by asking who's stopping you buying one for the same price your dear old dad did.

[Ocean1]

So why was there not a peep out of you when the Nats increased GST then?
Could it be for the reasons I previously mentioned?
In case you haven't noticed more houses on the north island market is good, as you guys are always going on that the property shortage driving up the price.
Could it be that mass property speculation as a result of their not being a CGT was one of the leading drivers Aucklands property bubble?

Seems unlikely I failed to peep like fuck about any increase in GST. I certainly didn't bother taking any notice of whatever reasons you might have mentioned.

More houses on the market aren't actually the same thing as more houses, dude. And as I've just been saying, most economists have predicted that the introduction of a CGT on residential properties would result in less investment, and subsequently fewer available properties. As of right now have zero fucks available to give, I'm out of the market altogether.

[Graystone]

Oh I'm sure your references for how others spend their money is driven by the very best intentions. It always is.

You must have missed my point about less investment resulting in fewer assets.

And your arithmetic fails to describe the fact that while houses may now cost twice as much in terms of family income they are in fact well over twice the size. It also fails to address the fact that interest rates, (y'know, what actually drives housing ownership affordability) are at historic lows.

Again, if you pine for a low spec bungalow on a quarter acre then you might be well served by asking who's stopping you buying one for the same price your dear old dad did.

As is the way it always should be.

Ah right, so less investment could lead to some sort of 'housing crisis', well it's a great thing that could never happen now right

That was the 2% bit of the arithmetic describing it rather well I thought. What fucking reality are you living in? housing affordability is driven by mortgage repayments, which is driven primarily by the price, interest rate is still a big factor, but it is a secondary one.

There are none available for the price my dad paid; do try and keep up with the conversation will you.

[husaberg]

Seems unlikely I failed to peep like fuck about any increase in GST. I certainly didn't bother taking any notice of whatever reasons you might have mentioned.

More houses on the market aren't actually the same thing as more houses, dude. And as I've just been saying, most economists have predicted that the introduction of a CGT on residential properties would result in less investment, and subsequently fewer available properties. As of right now have zero fucks available to give, I'm out of the market altogether.

Point to the posts where you wee outraged about National raising GST then?

Also Congratulations ocean you just invented a whole new form of economics where a heathy supply of goods does not limit the increase in value or lower the value of said commodity.
Because without the competition from the investors in the Auckland housing market driving up prices, some of those renter plebs would have been able to afford to buy said houses rather than rent from property investors.
Sorry Ocean everyone in the world cant make a living selling mcdonalds burgers to each other one day and buying it the next.
Which is the zenith of the right wing free market economy.