Calling all conspiracy theorists - do you believe in this one?

[pritch]

MH370 they trotting our another new lie to support the fairy tale.....

I'm not sure that can be called new. Another board I watch mostly involves people who lived in Malaysia for years and the suicide/murder thing was one of the first possibilities mentioned. At the time I thought that was a bit hasty, but as further information has come to light about the fiight, it must be considered a possibility.

Y'all may be familiar with the expression "running amok". Amok is a Malay word and it referred to the occasional situation whereby a villager took his parang (machete) and started hacking anybody he could get at until the villager was himself cut down. The thought was that the Malay pilot had found a more high tech method of amok. The argument was advanced that "it was in his genes".

Seemed odd at the time and we'll probably never know, but it is starting to look as if that may be the case.

[husaberg]

The plane was smaller than an Orion, and on it's southward bound travels it was more over land, not the coast.

I'm now thinking you are not as much a troll, rather as an inattentive keyboard warrior who gives scant regard to what it is people are really saying, then bang out on those poor keys absolute drivel all the while thinking you are quite the intellect. What I said is really so completely simple. I can only conclude that at best - your faith in your skim reading is completely misplaced, or at worst you are deliberately being an obtuse argumentative sod for the sake of it.

You say i m talking absolute drivel when you claim to have seen a plane doing something you didn't understand, that you claimed would be most likely only be up to nefarious means.
Now that you have given, your location, trajectory of the flight and size of plane would it surprise you that Sounds air leaves Westport and flys north along the Coast to about Karamea in order to gain altitude and save fuel by doing it slowly, before it turns and flys to Wellington 5 times a week...........it departs Westport at 645 am. What do you think would be logical conclusion of what you seen. To a resonable person.
Is it still most likely to be Top secret Cloud seeding?

[Katman]

Now that you have given your location trajectory and size of plane would it surprise you that Sounds air leaves Westport and flys north along the Coast to about Karamea inorder to gain altitude a save fuel by doing it slowly before it turns and flys to Wellington 5 times a week

If the plane takes off from Westport and flies North to Karamea, is it really likely to make a 180 degree turn to head for Wellington?

[Katman]

And is it really likely to be leaving a contrail behind it while it's climbing?

[pritch]

I see vapour trails any day weather conditions permit. Horizon to horizon, highly unlikely it's anything exciting, we are just situated under a normal flight path.

[sugilite:Me]

You say i m talking absolute drivel when you claim to have seen a plane doing something you didn't understand, that you claimed would be most likely only be up to nefarious means.
Now that you have given, your location, trajectory of the flight and size of plane would it surprise you that Sounds air leaves Westport and flys north along the Coast to about Karamea in order to gain altitude and save fuel by doing it slowly, before it turns and flys to Wellington 5 times a week...........it departs Westport at 645 am. What do you think would be logical conclusion of what you seen. To a resonable person.
Is it still most likely to be Top secret Cloud seeding?

You seem to have a real difficulty grasping what a turn of 180 degrees represents. If you do understand, then what you are claiming is that this plane saves fuel by heading one direction turning around 180 degrees and flying back from whence it came?

I'm pretty sure I did not say that the plane was doing top secret cloud seeding. What I said was so painfully simple. In fact here is my original post below. Hmm do I claim it is up to nefarious means? No. Do I ever claim in any of my posts that it is some top secret cloud seeding? Again, No.

I did not think much about chem trails until I got to the West Coast. Every fine day it seemed a few appeared. I noticed some stayed around literally all day long, getting wider and wider, until it was kilometers wide, that sure is a lot of vapor I found myself thinking. So I started watching closer, and I saw planes go by leaving the trail that I just described, yet ones going by a very short time later where the trails disappeared in seconds. I know, I know, different altitudes blah blah.
I used to get up a bit late as I often worked late at night, and there they would be. So I got up really early for a week and watched for where and when these things turned up. And what I saw was quite curious, a lone plane really early each fine morning of that week would go by leaving one of the trails that would take up to 10 hours or longer to grow ever wider. The puzzling thing, it would turn around, without landing and just head back from the direction it came - all the while leaving a trail. Naturally I have no idea what the hell the trail is, vapor or otherwise. But I sure as fuck wonder who is paying to have a plane got on a morning tiki tour clearly not delivering any freight and or passengers to a destination. An aircraft is not cheap to run - so WTF?

Subsequently, the trail has been explained to me in such a way as it sounds quite plausible, a fact I have since acknowledged in many subsequent posts. The 180 degree turn and heading back in the same direction as it came does not match up with your lame saving fuel hypothesis, though not as lame as your two separate planes hypothesis - when I had clearly stated the plane I saw was leaving a trail the whole time right from my first post.

Now that we have ascertained that you take and change what people say, to make them look loonier than what they actually may be - in order to make yourself look like the sound body of reason. I say this is very weak methodology of debate. At least demonlord who does similar wraps it up in a nice pretty bouquet and is fairly clever with it. Your attempts in comparison, are inarticulate, clumsy and well - just a plain embarrassment upon yourself.

[sugilite:Me]

You've seen something that is Odd, yet may have a perfectly valid and rational explanation. You've conjectured (so not believed) a possibility that is not only far-fetched, but requires a large number of a priori positions (several of which I disagree with) and requires a degree of assumption of guilt upon various parties.
From my perspective - those last parts are worthy of rebuke and ridicule for seriously contemplating and then not rejecting (based on the current level of evidence to support them). I'm also not a big fan of the line of reasoning that has a resentful element against people who have achieved wealth and status, as I believe this to be a major social problem.

What posts of mine did you get all that from please? The resentment of wealth element, the conjectures, my priori positions of several you disagree with and where I placed the assumption of guilt? (No out of context quotes either please)

Furthermore - I've often maintained that I don't take the things I argue about online too seriously - to the point that if I was ever in a Pub and Katman walked in - I'd have a beverage with him (I don't think he'd say the same about me - but nvm) - perhaps you shouldn't take the internet too seriously either.

OK, fair enough, we have established I'm not a fan of your style of twisting what people say, or even stating positions they have simply never registered. So I have learned my lesson and as suggested will not take things to seriously, especially things you say.

[oldrider]

Gaza prison? https://twitter.com/AntiMedia/status...rymakow.com%2F

[T.W.R]

You seem to have a real difficulty grasping what a turn of 180 degrees represents. If you do understand, then what you are claiming is that this plane saves fuel by heading one direction turning around 180 degrees and flying back from whence it came?

Don't mention that the Sounds Air plane that does the Westport - Wellington run is a single engine, 9 seater puddle jumping Cessna not much bigger than your average crop duster and quarter the size of an Orion

[husaberg]

I'm pretty sure I did not say that the plane was doing top secret cloud seeding. What I said was so painfully simple. In fact here is my original post below. Hmm do I claim it is up to nefarious means? No. Do I ever claim in any of my posts that it is some top secret cloud seeding? Again, No.

No but you alluded to that it could in your opinion be up to no good.

Yes, it is a real mystery, as is why the plane turns around and comes back without landing - something is different about the whole scenario, not exactly standard aircraft behavior, and "contrails".

So just my question remains about who is paying for these expensive flights for the mystery plane that is not carrying freight or passengers and just happens to be the one that seems to kick of the cloud seeding? I honestly are not expecting an answer on Kiwibiker or anywhere else for that matter - even if the mystery financial party could be found it, I'm sure the answer would hidden behind the good old "commercially sensitive" tag.

While I accept it can be all that you say, I have nagging doubts because just that one plane was leaving that signature, and it was the only one that came back again. I saw other planes leaving just little contrails just minutes later, ones that disappeared 60 seconds later, but no point comparing as different altitudes blah blah.
Would an organization spend a ton of cash for nefarious means? Yes, absolutely yes.
What would be the point?
One word - resources. A heck of a lot of wars are about resources. Even a fair few started on the pretext of religion in my opinion, were really about acquisition of resources.
Looking at World history, time and time again, new and previously unknown technology has been used to annihilate people that are holding resources others want.
Yes, for sure there is the extreme tribes of conspiracists that are down the bottom of the garden with their tin foil hats on. However, to my way of thinking, the people that consider themselves educated, and have what appears to be near blind faith that big pharma, big chemical companies, shadowy lobby groups steering governments all over the World etc, would never do anything as dastardly as fuck over everybody in the worst possible way except themselves
It is extremely murky at best to clearly define which science has been untainted by corruption at high levels, levels scientists themselves will likely be completely oblivious to.

Evil is very much still alive and kicking.

Don't mention that the Sounds Air plane that does the Westport - Wellington run is a single engine, 9 seater puddle jumping Cessna not much bigger than your average crop duster and quarter the size of an Orion

He mentioned smaller than a Orion, Actually a Cessna 208 Caravan as used by sounds air is half the wingsapan and one third the length of a P3 Orion

I explained earlier why I called it a chemtrail. It has become a fairly mainstream term in the media etc.
The plane was smaller than an Orion, and on it's southward bound travels it was more over land, not the coast.

You seem to have a real difficulty grasping what a turn of 180 degrees represents. If you do understand, then what you are claiming is that this plane saves fuel by heading one direction turning around 180 degrees and flying back from whence it came?

Have a look at the latitude of Karamea and then the orientation of both airports.
Westport airport is parallel to the Tasman Sea shore.
The planes dont take off and try and immediately try and climb over the rather steep steep Paphaua mountain range that is just a few kms from the town so they climb out at sea or parallel to the coast, Depending on th ewind direction, Wellingtons requires a approach from cook straight which although it seems counter intuitive requires an approach that is actually south of Karamea. Commercial planes try and climb as shallow as posible they also try and take the route that suits the prevailing winds and takes advantage of breaks in terrain.
there is a break in the range just south of Karamea bluffs which will be out of the view of anyone in Karamea that allows a direct flight path to wellington on the correct orientation for wellington airport.
I have presented a series of logical explanations for what you have said you have seen based on what you divulged at the time.
You on the other hand have been extremely defensive, yet you so easy could have contacted the CAA or Westport airport and said i are curious about some plane/s i have seen can you shed some light on whats going on. Yet you didn't do so.

[sugilite:Me]

N
Have a look at the latitude of Karamea and then the orientation of both airports.
Westport airport is parallel to the Tasman Sea shore.
The planes dont take off and try and immediately try and climb over the rather steep steep Paphaua mountain range that is just a few kms from the town so they climb out at sea or parallel to the coast, Depending on th ewind direction, Wellingtons requires a approach from cook straight which although it seems counter intuitive requires an approach that is actually south of Karamea. Commercial planes try and climb as shallow as posible they also try and take the route that suits the prevailing winds and takes advantage of breaks in terrain.
there is a break in the range just south of Karamea bluffs which will be out of the view of anyone in Karamea that allows a direct flight path to wellington on the correct orientation for wellington airport.
I have presented a series of logical explanations for what you have said you have seen based on what you divulged at the time.
You on the other hand have been extremely defensive, yet you so easy could have contacted the CAA or Westport airport and said i are curious about some plane/s i have seen can you shed some light on whats going on. Yet you didn't do so.

ARRRGGG! 180 degrees, 180 degrees, 180 degrees! Not 90, not 45 - 180 degrees turn!
BTW, it did not lose any altitude as it flew towards and most likely past westport. I had a very good view from good altitude in case you were wondering. But enough is enough. I lived above Karamea, so I know where wellington and westport are in relation to it - so no just no to your suggestion. AND 180 degrees turn FFS.

[sugilite:Me]

The planes dont take off and try and immediately try and climb over the rather steep steep Paphaua mountain range that is just a few kms from the town so they climb out at sea or parallel to the coast, Depending on th ewind direction, Wellingtons requires a approach from cook straight which although it seems counter intuitive requires an approach that is actually south of Karamea.

Please find graphical representation of your idea of what a 180 degree turn looks like.....

[T.W.R]

He mentioned smaller than a Orion, Actually a Cessna 208 Caravan as used by sounds air is half the wingsapan and one third the length of a P3 Orion.

Still a lot smaller plane if you really want to check the full specs of both aircraft
Another thing you haven't considered is the flight altitude of such a small town domestic puddle jumper and the restrictions associated with the so-called transition zone around Wellington airport both of these aspects are a long way short of the height required to produce a contrail/chemtrail

Here's a couple of pics for you to get your head around

1) Qantas Flight heading into ChCh taken roughly the time this thread started (just for shits & giggles)
2) A Photo I took a few years back of something? a fucking long way up far above the average 35,000ft (camera maxed out both optical & digital zoom)
3) Air New Zealand flight heading to Queenstown (taken a few hours ago, camera at 12x optical & 48x digital zoom)

[TheDemonLord]

What posts of mine did you get all that from please? The resentment of wealth element, the conjectures, my priori positions of several you disagree with and where I placed the assumption of guilt? (No out of context quotes either please)

Sure - I said:

"If I were to TL;DR your views - you've got a suspicion of those 'in power', you subscribe to the over-population theory, you believe that there may be plans/tests/tech that has or is being trialed for some form of population control,"

You agreed with that statement, yes?

From where does the Suspicion of those 'in power' come from? Note - there's a difference between healthy skepticism and suspicion. From your other comments:

I'm thinking a bit bigger than that. What I'm seeing is the World cannot possibly sustain the fast growing population at the current rate and wasteful resource hungry way of life. Do you seriously think the people at the top of the totem pole are not looking for some kind of total solution to this problem? And that solution can only mean a serious reduction of life on the planet

From that - I see a degree of resentment against those who you see at the top of the totem pole - you don't seem to treat them with any benefit of doubt or with a degree of civility. You state your position that according to your world view, the only alternative is a serious reduction of life - that's an a priori position I don't agree with and I don't agree with that particular theory it's in relation to (especially with what seems to happen in regards to Birth/Death rates, after womens rights, eduction etc.).

As far as assumption of Guilt - you're effectively suggesting that those people in power are researching genocide.

That's my take on your statements, just as your take on mine is that I'm twisting yours. It's possible we are talking passed each other - but in your opening remarks, you were pretty condemnatory against those you perceive as in power.

OK, fair enough, we have established I'm not a fan of your style of twisting what people say, or even stating positions they have simply never registered. So I have learned my lesson and as suggested will not take things to seriously, especially things you say.

heh. That made me laff.

[TheDemonLord]

Would it be fair to say that you have completely discounted any possibility of there being any nefarious agenda in the pursuit of geo-engineering practices?

Even in the face of quotes such as "The nation which first learns to plot the paths of air masses accurately and learns to control the time and place of precipitation will dominate the globe" - as stated by General George C Kenney back in the 1940s when he was the Commander of US Strategic Air Command?

Of the type of agenda that is often theorized, Based on the evidence thus far - yes I completely discount it.

To entertain it - first you'd have to give a definitive reason for doing it AND provide some form of proof for that reason. You've given 2 speeches, one about reducing Global Warming, another about global conquest - So which reason would be THE reason?

Then you'd have to demonstrate evidence that it was actually being done (ie specially modded planes, flights that carry no passengers, supposed civillian flights taking off from military bases) - the trails themselves aren't evidence

You'd also need to provide some form of whistle blower (like Edward Snowden for example)

In terms of hypothetical ideas - sure, it's possible. In regards to that speech - The Military will often explore strange or abstract ideas, if they think they might have a tactical advantage. Your General is spitballing, he's not wrong - if in a conflict you could stop rain from a country for an extended period of time or you could generate rain in a specific region (to bog down an advancing force in mud, or cause flash floods) - then yes, absolutely - you would dominate the globe. In fact, this very idea has even made it's way into Pop-Culture via Red Alert 2 (an RTS game) - but there is a difference between discussing an idea or potential strategy, to implementing it.