Tommy Robinson

[Katman]

Yet this is opinion is not backed by any facts of any of his previous imprisonments now is it?
For you to make the statements you did, shows you are either lacking in intelligence or are prone to making stupid irrational statements.

Apparently Tommy Robinson was moved to solitary confinement in the last few days due to the intervention of Lord Pearson who has said that Sajid Javid would be held personally responsible if anything was to happen to Tommy Robinson while serving his sentence.

[husaberg]

Apparently Tommy Robinson was moved to solitary confinement in the last few days due to the intervention of Lord Pearson who has said that Sajid Javid would be held personally responsible if anything was to happen to Tommy Robinson while serving his sentence.

Last few days really?
Yet even he even admits He has been in solitary confinement from the 15th June, its highly likely he also was well before than also.
Your supposed intervention by Lord Pearson happened on the 27th May btw.
Seeing as you made the statements that he was in danger its now up to you prove that he was ever in the general population of any prison.
You need to prove he was in the general population between the 27th May and the 15th of June.
Meanwhile AKA is busy writing his next book
Tommy Robinson Aka Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon Andrew McMaster and Paul Harris "Enemy of the state" or "they were out to get me"

[TheDemonLord]

AKA lives in Luton
i am not from the UK but that is nowhere near Rotheram it would be 100's of KMs away.

Indeed - and if you read a little more on this issue, you'd know that multiple communities have reported similar issues - namely the rise in popularity of a certain strain of Islam that is antithetical to Western values, the rise of Migrants from certain locales that view western Women as effectively prostitutes.

It is not his community at all, unless you are meaning because he is not an immigrant.
But wait he practically is......Seeing as both his parents were immigrants.

You're trying to poison the well, Tommy's rhetorhic against immigration is to do mainly with the European Migrant crisis, and in particular with the juxtaposition between wanting to help those in need (often portrayed as Women and Children) and those who crossed the Borders (the so-called Military Aged Male)

I should also point out that the families were in most cases not aware either, that their children were being abused, as they didn't tell them or the police either

I should point out that your statement is complete Horse Shit. In Rotherham and in many other locations the locals knew EXACTLY what was going on, they reported it multiple times to the police, to the council, to charity workers, to crisis centres, to their MPs, to their councillors.

Thats the issue with cases such as this its not a black and white as you would like it to be.

Sure - I can accept that, but in doing so would mean admitting there is an area of Grey, that perhaps there are parts of the so-called 'Religion of Peace' that give it's followers either explicitly or implicitly religious sanction to carry out horrific acts.

The black and white of the issue, as it is currently portrayed, is that Islam is a Religion of Peace and anyone who says otherwise is (insert preferred pejorative here)

Incorrect Sexual exploitation of a minor is still the sexual exploitation of a minor.

Then tell me Husa, why do the Police have an organized Crimes unit? Afterall, a Crime is a Crime yes? That is the point you are making? Unless, of course, the presence of there being an organized element puts it into a higher, more complex category of offending - because Groups of people can do things that individuals simply cant (a perverse version of Economies of Scale)

You seek to dismiss the far larger problem that there is far more offenders of sexual exploitation of minors that are not pakistani or Indian, You are attempting to say its different, Just to suit what AKA says. Its not.

No, I'm stopping you from trying to conflate two issues in order to downplay the original issue. The main reason to do so is to avoid the discussion of the religious and cultural aspect that is causal to this specific type of crime.

Its just another form of the same crime, there is no moral or legal distinction in that they are sexual exploitation of children between them.

See above - Gang crime is treated differently (both at a Moral and Legal level) than non-gang crime.

You are also as i have pointed out multiple times using the stats only of those recently convicted which in itself is rather ironic when AKAs cornerstone was they were not being punished.
How do we know there is not multiple other grooming rings involving Caucasians that ere not being caught and prosecuted due to them being white?

Okay then - can you point to a Report by an authority that indicates that? Cause otherwise you're making something up that has no evidential basis to try and prove and inverse issue.

That's what you have to contend with - we've got clear and documented instances where this has happened as I've described it.

IF you truly believe this, Should we send all the members of the Islamic religions to a concentration camp and fire up the ovens in 1939 style then?

Not at all - but I am of the opinion that those that actively want Sharia in the UK should be actively encouraged to migrate to the nearest country that has Sharia as part of their legal system. I'm also of the opinion that those that preach the death and destruction of the West, whilst reaping the benefits of the West, should be given a choice to either reign it in or move to a country where that behavior is acceptable.
Those that think Honor killings, Acid attacks, murder of Homosexuals, rape and pedophilia are acceptable - Well - what do you think is Acceptable for those Husa?

Edit: To give balance to the above - I've already stated, that I've got no problem with a good Muslim who prays to Allah 5 times a day, abstains from alcohol and Pork, celebrates Ramadan, undertakes the Haj etc. None of those actions or beliefs are at odds with Western Democracy.

The rest of your post is basically the Fallacy of relative privation.

[Katman]

Not the book but it covers a fair bit of it.
https://issuu.com/iwishart/docs/investigate_june07/33
I wouldn't normally take much notice of wishart but seeing as t came from a book written by the actual detective which I have read.

So it would appear that we have our own scandal involving police and government ministers covering up crimes.

Why would the story have gotten no further than an Investigate magazine article?

[husaberg]

So it would appear that we have our own scandal involving police and government ministers covering up crimes.

Why would the story have gotten no further than an Investigate magazine article?

The story was written about the book heres an idea, why don't you actually read it.

[Katman]

The story was written about the book heres an idea, why don't you actually read it.

I read the article.

[husaberg]

Indeed - and if you read a little more on this issue, you'd know that multiple communities have reported similar issues - namely the rise in popularity of a certain strain of Islam that is antithetical to Western values, the rise of Migrants from certain locales that view western Women as effectively prostitutes.



You're trying to poison the well, Tommy's rhetorhic against immigration is to do mainly with the European Migrant crisis, and in particular with the juxtaposition between wanting to help those in need (often portrayed as Women and Children) and those who crossed the Borders (the so-called Military Aged Male)



I should point out that your statement is complete Horse Shit. In Rotherham and in many other locations the locals knew EXACTLY what was going on, they reported it multiple times to the police, to the council, to charity workers, to crisis centres, to their MPs, to their councillors.



Sure - I can accept that, but in doing so would mean admitting there is an area of Grey, that perhaps there are parts of the so-called 'Religion of Peace' that give it's followers either explicitly or implicitly religious sanction to carry out horrific acts.

The black and white of the issue, as it is currently portrayed, is that Islam is a Religion of Peace and anyone who says otherwise is (insert preferred pejorative here)



Then tell me Husa, why do the Police have an organized Crimes unit? Afterall, a Crime is a Crime yes? That is the point you are making? Unless, of course, the presence of there being an organized element puts it into a higher, more complex category of offending - because Groups of people can do things that individuals simply cant (a perverse version of Economies of Scale)



No, I'm stopping you from trying to conflate two issues in order to downplay the original issue. The main reason to do so is to avoid the discussion of the religious and cultural aspect that is causal to this specific type of crime.



See above - Gang crime is treated differently (both at a Moral and Legal level) than non-gang crime.



Okay then - can you point to a Report by an authority that indicates that? Cause otherwise you're making something up that has no evidential basis to try and prove and inverse issue.

That's what you have to contend with - we've got clear and documented instances where this has happened as I've described it.



Not at all - but I am of the opinion that those that actively want Sharia in the UK should be actively encouraged to migrate to the nearest country that has Sharia as part of their legal system. I'm also of the opinion that those that preach the death and destruction of the West, whilst reaping the benefits of the West, should be given a choice to either reign it in or move to a country where that behavior is acceptable.
Those that think Honor killings, Acid attacks, murder of Homosexuals, rape and pedophilia are acceptable - Well - what do you think is Acceptable for those Husa?

Edit: To give balance to the above - I've already stated, that I've got no problem with a good Muslim who prays to Allah 5 times a day, abstains from alcohol and Pork, celebrates Ramadan, undertakes the Haj etc. None of those actions or beliefs are at odds with Western Democracy.

The rest of your post is basically the Fallacy of relative privation.

If you are going to disagree with an actual formal inquires outcome provide some evidence or bugger off.
If you are going to make statements that the police failed to investigate complaints properly as they would have been able to feel free to provide proof.
If you are going to claim comunitys knew and had actual admissable evidence they provided to police which the police ignored prove it.
If you are going to claim that AKA interst was only in what was going on, provide evidence that he show any interest at all before the legal process against the criminals started.
AS for your latest "good Muslim"
here is a clue the guilty people were put before a court and found guilty of crimes thats how a legal system works.

After they have served their sentence they will be sent back to were they come from (on the most part.) this has been spelled out during the legal process.
You speak of AKAs rhetoric its not rhetoric its racial hate speach and legal breachs to do with trials.

[TheDemonLord]

If you are going to disagree with an actual formal inquires outcome provide some evidence or bugger off.

I've done no such thing.

If you are going to make statements that the police failed to investigate complaints properly feeel free to provide proof.

Rotherham Report.

If you are going to claim comunitys knew and had actual admissable evidence they provided to police prove it.

Rotherham Report.

If you are going to claim that AKA interst was only in what was going on prove evidence that he show any interest at all before the legal process again the criminals started.

I think you need to retype that - I'm not sure what your challenge is.

AS for your latest good Muslim
here is a clue the guilty people were put before a court and found guilty of crimes thats how a legal system works.
After they have served their sentence they will be sent back to were they come from on the most part.
You speak of AKAs rhetoric its not rhetoric its racial hate speach and legal breachs to do with trials.

You are looking at one half of the picture, whilst ignoring the other, well-documented half.

Yes, people are being charged and convictions are being secured, There is still apprehension in mainstream British society in either drawing causal relationships between the crimes and the religion or critique of the negative parts of Islam in general.

Put it this way - England has a long tradition of Crack-pots and eccentrics, most of which might gain a bit of a following, but once they are given sunlight, it shows quite clearly the absurdity of their claims. A brilliant example is the BNP - it was doing really well in the UK, right up until their leader went on a national TV programme and exposed the BNP for being the closet Fascists.

The Truth will out.

And so to Tommy, if he was just another far-right crack pot, spouting hate - why hasn't he received the BNP treatment? The problem you are faced with, is that on some issues, he's right. We may not like that he is right, we may not want him to be right, but he has withstood multiple attempts to smear and silence him and yet his message is still getting traction.

[husaberg]

I've done no such thing.



Rotherham Report.



Rotherham Report.



I think you need to retype that - I'm not sure what your challenge is.



You are looking at one half of the picture, whilst ignoring the other, well-documented half.

Yes, people are being charged and convictions are being secured, There is still apprehension in mainstream British society in either drawing causal relationships between the crimes and the religion or critique of the negative parts of Islam in general.

Put it this way - England has a long tradition of Crack-pots and eccentrics, most of which might gain a bit of a following, but once they are given sunlight, it shows quite clearly the absurdity of their claims. A brilliant example is the BNP - it was doing really well in the UK, right up until their leader went on a national TV programme and exposed the BNP for being the closet Fascists.

The Truth will out.

And so to Tommy, if he was just another far-right crack pot, spouting hate - why hasn't he received the BNP treatment? The problem you are faced with, is that on some issues, he's right. We may not like that he is right, we may not want him to be right, but he has withstood multiple attempts to smear and silence him and yet his message is still getting traction.

What i am lookin at is a katman like reply that again provides no evidence to the claims i called you out on.
If you you want to claim its proven to have occured in any of the official reports, show it.
Because there is a huge diference to what you and katman have previously claimed is in the report that what the reports have actually stated.

As for your claims i are looking at one half of the picture, get a grip, you are taking the vile deeds of a few and saying its indicative of the many.

[TheDemonLord]

What i am lookin at is a katman like reply that again provides no evidence to the claims i called you out on.
If you you want to claim its proven to have occured in any of the official reports, show it.

I did... You dismissed it...

Because there is a huge diference to what you and katman have previously claimed is in the report that what the reports have actually stated.

All I've claimed is what the reports confirms - that the police, council et al failed to act on multiple reports of Child abuse (including claims of systematic child abuse) for fear of appearing racist or islamaphobic.

You can read the report if you wish, you can dispute the interpretation of the sections I've quoted, you can refer to other documents written about the content of the report - take your pick

As for your claims i are looking at one half of the picture, get a grip, you are taking the vile deeds of a few and saying its indicative of the many.

And when you phrase it like that, it sounds absurd because you aren't adding the relevant addendums - This is what I mean by deliberately ignoring one half of the picture.

[husaberg]

I did... You dismissed it....

You said its in a report I have asked you to prove that is the case you have failed to do as has Katsilampam

All I've claimed is what the reports confirms - that the police, council et al failed to act on multiple reports of Child abuse (including claims of systematic child abuse) for fear of appearing racist or islamaphobic.

As I have suggested this is not the case with the police it was in reference in one report to youth and abuse councillors,

You can read the report if you wish, you can dispute the interpretation of the sections I've quoted, you can refer to other documents written about the content of the report - take your pick
.

The report there are three.
I have skim read all three and read the summaries .They dont contain the outcomes or the proof you suggest they do.
while they are rightfully critical of the invesigations the police carried out they are to do with communication between parties, resources, training and understanding of the issues.
Note two of the reports came out after arrests and prosecutions against the offenders were initiated.

And when you phrase it like that, it sounds absurd because you aren't adding the relevant addendums - This is what I mean by deliberately ignoring one half of the picture.

No mater how its phrased Your own stance sounds absurd because it is a absurd racial generalisation.

[Katman]

The report there are three.
I have skim read all three and read the summaries .They dont contain the outcomes or the proof you suggest they do.

Don't be shy - post them up.

[TheDemonLord]

You said its in a report I have asked you to prove that is the case you have failed to do as has Katsilampam

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...post1131101662

There, at the bottom of the posts, a series of Excerpts from the Rotherham Report

As I have suggested this is not the case with the police it was in reference in one report to youth and abuse councillors,

Again, from the Rotherham report (THE Rotherham report):

the Police dared not act against Asian youths for fear of allegations of racism

... expressed the general view that ethnic considerations had influenced the policy response of the Council and the Police

I'm not sure how it can be any clearer than that?

The report there are three.

No, there is only one report that is referred to as THE Rotherham report, there are other reports about Rotherham - but there is one definitive report on this issue, which is the only one I've cited.

I have skim read all three and read the summaries .They dont contain the outcomes or the proof you suggest they do.

Then why do multiple seperate sources that comment on the Rotherham report have that excerpt? From Wikipedia:

The failure to address the abuse was attributed to a combination of factors revolving around race, class and gender—contemptuous and sexist attitudes toward the mostly working-class victims; fear that the perpetrators' ethnicity would trigger allegations of racism and damage community relations; the Labour council's reluctance to challenge a Labour-voting ethnic minority; l

Or from Jay herself:

Over the first twelve years covered by this inquiry, the collective failures of political and officer leadership were blatant.

Within social care, the scale and seriousness of the problem was underplayed by senior managers.

Some at a senior level in the police and children’s social care continued to think the extent of the problem, as described by youth workers, was exaggerated, and seemed intent on reducing the official numbers of children categorised as CSE.

“Seminars for elected members and senior officers in 2004/05 presented the abuse in the most explicit terms. After these events, nobody could say ‘we didn’t know’.”

“By far the majority of perpetrators were described as ‘Asian’ by victims, yet throughout the entire period, councillors did not engage directly with the Pakistani-heritage community to discuss how best they could jointly address the issue. Several staff described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought racist; others remembered clear direction from their managers not to do so.”"

while they are rightfully critical of the invesigations the police carried out they are to do with communication between parties, resources, training and understanding of the issues.
Note two of the reports came out after arrests and prosecutions against the offenders were initiated.

Look at the quote from Jay - I'm going to re-iterate it for clarity:

“Seminars for elected members and senior officers in 2004/05 presented the abuse in the most explicit terms. After these events, nobody could say ‘we didn’t know’.”

The first major trial occurred in 2010 but the scandal really broke in 2012 - That's nearly a Decade from knowing about systematic abuse of Children and doing NOTHING

There's also a fair amount of evidence that people were raising multiple red flags, at multiple levels in around 2000/2001

No mater how its phrased Your own stance sounds absurd because it is a absurd racial generalisation.

And that, is the same head-in-the-sand thinking that allowed this tragedy to perpetuate.

[Katman]

In case anyone's interested.....

https://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloa..._rotherham.pdf

[Murray]

In case anyone's interested.....

https://www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloa..._rotherham.pdf

I'm not its a motorcycle forum!

Cry me a river!