Tommy Robinson

[Katman]

Or you could show the full transcipt where he doesn't then.

I'm not the one who has repeatedly claimed that Tommy Robinson pleaded guilty.

[husaberg]

I'm not the one who has repeatedly claimed that Tommy Robinson pleaded guilty.

Tommy Robinson is not in any court documents i do not know why you keep insisting on using a pseudonym.
AKA plead guilty to contempt apologized and was given a suspended sentence, he then went on to commit the same offence.
At that time the original sentence was invoked along with a further sentence for being in contempt again.
None of the court documents in the appeal mention he was not given the chance to plead. only he didn't understand the ramifications and he didn't have time to make a case.
the only evidence you have that he did not plead guilty is a interview with AKA where he failed to mention why he was imprisoned and made it out to be an other issue.
Not once did he mention he was brodcasting a live feed of a court case with a media black out.
This is a guy that has about 3 convictions for fraud.
Complained he was in solitary confinement when it was people such as you insisted he would be to protect him.
He complained about the wardens not playing snooker with him.

[Katman]

the only evidence you have that he did not plead guilty is a interview with AKA.

Whereas you haven't provided any proof whatsoever that Tommy Robinson (or whatever you want to call him) pleaded guilty.

[husaberg]

Whereas you haven't provided any proof whatsoever that Tommy Robinson (or whatever you want to call him) pleaded guilty.

What i want to call him, Tommy is what you persist in calling him,. its an alias he has many of them.
the courts call him Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon
Yet his guilty plea has been mentioned thousands of times by hundreds of sources. including his lawyers.
But of course you would trust Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon over hundreds of other that dont have multiple fraud convictions.
Out of interest do you belive he was telling the whole truth in his interview?

[Katman]

Yets Its been mentioned thousands of times by hundreds of sources that he did. including his lawyers.

Show us then.

Let's see what you believe constitutes 'proof'.

[Katman]

Out of interest do you belive he was telling the whole truth in his interview?

He'd have to be pretty stupid to claim something that could easily be refuted - simply by producing a court transcript where he says "guilty your Honour".

[husaberg]

He'd have to be pretty stupid to claim something that could easily be refuted - simply by producing a court transcript where he says "guilty your Honour".

No one can produce the transcripts as they have not been released.
Yeah right hes super bright

HER HONOUR JUDGE NORTON

There will be no conditions that need to be attached to that suspended sentence, but you should be under no illusions that if you commit any further offence of any kind, and that would include, I would have thought a further contempt of court by similar actions, then that sentence of three months would be activated, and that would be on top of anything else that you were given by any other court.
I would have thought a further contempt of court by similar actions, then that sentence of three months would be activated, and that would be on top ofanything else that you were given by any other court.In short, Mr. Yaxley-Lennon, turn up at another court,refer to people as "Muslim paedophiles, Muslim rapists" and so on and so forth while trials are ongoing and before there has been a finding by a jury that that is what they are, and you will find yourself inside. Do you understand?

[Katman]

No one can produce the transcripts as they have not been released.

So what exactly are you basing your belief that Tommy Robinson pleaded guilty on?

[Voltaire]

Tommy Robinson complains he was 'mentally tortured' because he had no TV in prison

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8477096.html

Apparently he was offered Kiwibiker to read but turned it down.

[TheDemonLord]

Don't getting sucked in by the AKA propaganda and try and turn AKA case into a case of free speech.
I think you need to keep in mind AKA was charged and sentenced and plead guilty with contempt of court not really anything to do with his politics per say.
He was charged and pleady guilty to breaching a court order relating to his actions in filming and broadcasting the events and witnesses. Including at one time in the court.
AFAIK all his other arrests and sentences have been to do with dishonesty assault and fraud.

You don't get it.

It doesn't matter if it's court process or Gulags. You do not use the tyranny of the state to advance an ideological end.

Think of it this way - I can't stand Holocaust denial (you are well aware of this, as is Katman) and I'll have that argument any day of the week - but I will never agree with Holocaust Denial laws.

Not for any love of the people who it grants freedom to, but because there is a deep, underlying principle that I will not compromise on.

You may not like Tommy, that's fair - he's a divisive character. But remember this, his freedoms are your freedoms and if the Government is able to tread on his - what stops them treading on yours?

[husaberg]

You don't get it.

It doesn't matter if it's court process or Gulags. You do not use the tyranny of the state to advance an ideological end.

Think of it this way - I can't stand Holocaust denial (you are well aware of this, as is Katman) and I'll have that argument any day of the week - but I will never agree with Holocaust Denial laws.

Not for any love of the people who it grants freedom to, but because there is a deep, underlying principle that I will not compromise on.

You may not like Tommy, that's fair - he's a divisive character. But remember this, his freedoms are your freedoms and if the Government is able to tread on his - what stops them treading on yours?

Free speech is not the same as hate speech.
Hate speech is designed to spread racial religious or sexist etc hate through stereotypes and falsehoods and denial.
AKA is a character created to make someone money while pushing racial propaganda messages.
Its okay to make remarks about indiividuals but it is not okay to define a whole race because of the deeds of a few.
People should be censored if they persist in spreading demonstratively false information

[Katman]

People should be censored if they persist in spreading demonstratively false information

So how about you list some of the things that Tommy Robinson has said that is 'demonstratively false information'.

[TheDemonLord]

Free speech is not the same as hate speech.
Hate speech is designed to spread racial religious or sexist etc hate through stereotypes and falsehoods and denial.
AKA is a character created to make someone money while pushing racial propaganda messages.
Its okay to make remarks about indiividuals but it is not okay to define a whole race because of the deeds of a few.
People should be censored if they persist in spreading demonstratively false information

That pre-supposes many things about Hate Speech - I draw the line at incitement to Violence - everything before that, is fair game. And I've not yet heard Tommy call for physical violence against Islam.

Here's the question though - let's assume that Tommy has spread demonstrably false information about Islam. You still have to contend with the actions of Islam. And this is where the implied claim that Tommy is just a raving crackpot breaks down somewhat.

Then you have to contend with something else - Tommy has on multiple occasions happily talked with people who are Muslims - notably Maajid Nawaaz - not the actions of the person you are characterizing him as.

[husaberg]

That pre-supposes many things about Hate Speech - I draw the line at incitement to Violence - everything before that, is fair game. And I've not yet heard Tommy call for physical violence against Islam.

Here's the question though - let's assume that Tommy has spread demonstrably false information about Islam. You still have to contend with the actions of Islam. And this is where the implied claim that Tommy is just a raving crackpot breaks down somewhat.

Then you have to contend with something else - Tommy has on multiple occasions happily talked with people who are Muslims - notably Maajid Nawaaz - not the actions of the person you are characterizing him as.

blather.

What i said stands.
Hate sppeeech is not free Speech
AKA talking to a Musli does not prove he is not a racist.
Do you remember the pictures of KKK members with Black people.
As soon a some say |"i cant be a racist as i blah blah with a black person" etc its pretty obvious.

[TheDemonLord]

blather.

What i said stands.

It really doesn't.

Hate sppeeech is not free Speech

That presupposes a number of things that I don't agree with. Furthermore, it's merely an assertion - you've got to prove objectively what is hate and furthermore provide a distinction between passionate critique and hate.

AKA talking to a Musli does not prove he is not a racist.
Do you remember the pictures of KKK members with Black people.
As soon a some say |"i cant be a racist as i blah blah with a black person" etc its pretty obvious.

Islam isn't a race.

The point is that it isn't a blind hatred of ALL Muslims. If you actually listen to Tommy and take his speech in the manner it is intended, forgiving his working class mannerisms and habits, then you realize his critique is that within Islam, there are parts that are fundamentally incompatible with Western democracy. There are moderate Muslims (such as Maajid) who don't hold to these parts of the Qu'ran, but there are also Muslims who DO hold to these parts of the Qu'ran and do so specifically because they believe it to be the divine word of Allah.

To put it another way - When ISIS throw gay people off of tall buildings to murder them, they do so in line with their religious teachings.