New Zealand. What a back water shit hole.

**TheDemonLord** · 16th October 2018, 16:18

Originally Posted by pritch

Nah. They are sent to jail to be locked up. They couldn't live within society's rules so they are removed from society. Rehabilitation is a bonus, and it's nice, but it is not why they are there.

Then why not just shoot them?

And I'm not being entirely hyperbolic.

If you want to remove them from society - Kill them and be done with it. Of course, if it's for a Minor crime, at some point they will be let out of prison - what then? If they haven't been rehabilitated and they just go on to re-offend - what was the point of releasing them? Again, Kill them and be done with it.

Rehabilitation should be the primary focus of Prison - removal of freedoms and 'punishment' is a bonus - because unless you either never release them or execute them - at some point they are going to re-enter society and what then? If someone only knows how to be a Criminal - what will they do when released?

Originally Posted by jasonu

This is how prisons should be. Fucking so scary you REALLY don't want to be there.
http://natgeotv.com/asia/inside-russ...dolphin-prison

Do you think that the average Criminal thinks about the consequences of their actions? It's why the Death Penalty has never worked as a deterrent. And then you have the issue that if they 'survive' such a prison and are released - you've just managed to make them an even better Criminal.

**Ocean1** · 16th October 2018, 16:31

Originally Posted by TheDemonLord

Then why not just shoot them?

And I'm not being entirely hyperbolic.

If you want to remove them from society - Kill them and be done with it. Of course, if it's for a Minor crime, at some point they will be let out of prison - what then? If they haven't been rehabilitated and they just go on to re-offend - what was the point of releasing them? Again, Kill them and be done with it.

Rehabilitation should be the primary focus of Prison - removal of freedoms and 'punishment' is a bonus - because unless you either never release them or execute them - at some point they are going to re-enter society and what then? If someone only knows how to be a Criminal - what will they do when released?

Do you think that the average Criminal thinks about the consequences of their actions? It's why the Death Penalty has never worked as a deterrent. And then you have the issue that if they 'survive' such a prison and are released - you've just managed to make them an even better Criminal.

Well they certainly fucking don't if there's never been any consequences for them. Ping 'em young and make it hurt, no consequences for shoplifting and general minor thuggery isn't giving them enough rope, it isn't giving them room to grow, it does nothing to ameliorate a hard home life, all it teaches them is that there's no consequences.

There's a reason kids join gangs, they're designed to integrate into a tribe, one with a hierarchy and a set of rules with consequences attached. If you don't give them one then they'll go find one, and once the're integrated there they're no longer of your tribe, you might as well shoot them. So SHOW them their tribes rules ffs, and help them figure out how to manage them without fucking up.

**HenryDorsetCase** · 16th October 2018, 18:16

Originally Posted by TheDemonLord

Then why not just shoot them?

And I'm not being entirely hyperbolic.

If you want to remove them from society - Kill them and be done with it. Of course, if it's for a Minor crime, at some point they will be let out of prison - what then? If they haven't been rehabilitated and they just go on to re-offend - what was the point of releasing them? Again, Kill them and be done with it.

Rehabilitation should be the primary focus of Prison - removal of freedoms and 'punishment' is a bonus - because unless you either never release them or execute them - at some point they are going to re-enter society and what then? If someone only knows how to be a Criminal - what will they do when released?

Do you think that the average Criminal thinks about the consequences of their actions? It's why the Death Penalty has never worked as a deterrent. And then you have the issue that if they 'survive' such a prison and are released - you've just managed to make them an even better Criminal.

we could, I dunno, transport them to the colonies.

**pritch** · 16th October 2018, 18:55

Originally Posted by TheDemonLord

Rehabilitation should be the primary focus of Prison

I'm certainly looking forward to your account of all the rehabilitation facilities available in prison. The only former inmates I've spoken to about prison didn't mention any.

I did receive an interesting description of the random drug testing program though.

**FJRider** · 16th October 2018, 19:38

Originally Posted by pritch

I did receive an interesting description of the random drug testing program though.

And if they get a positive result ... what do they do .. lock them up ... ??

**oldrider** · 16th October 2018, 19:43

Originally Posted by FJRider

And if they get a positive result ... what do they do .. lock them up ... ??

Probably lock em out - that would be their worst case scenario!

**FJRider** · 16th October 2018, 19:50

Originally Posted by oldrider

Probably lock em out - that would be their worst case scenario!

Yep ... home detention. Let their family feed/house/entertain them.

**pete376403** · 16th October 2018, 20:55

Originally Posted by HenryDorsetCase

we could, I dunno, transport them to the colonies.

That was tried. Australia is sending them all back

**jasonu** · 17th October 2018, 02:30

Originally Posted by FJRider

And if they get a positive result ... what do they do .. lock them up ... ??

The stupid NZ criminal 'justice' system would give them an additional 6 months for a failed drug test..................to be served currently with the original sentence.

**TheDemonLord** · 17th October 2018, 14:13

Originally Posted by Ocean1

Well they certainly fucking don't if there's never been any consequences for them. Ping 'em young and make it hurt, no consequences for shoplifting and general minor thuggery isn't giving them enough rope, it isn't giving them room to grow, it does nothing to ameliorate a hard home life, all it teaches them is that there's no consequences.

There's a reason kids join gangs, they're designed to integrate into a tribe, one with a hierarchy and a set of rules with consequences attached. If you don't give them one then they'll go find one, and once the're integrated there they're no longer of your tribe, you might as well shoot them. So SHOW them their tribes rules ffs, and help them figure out how to manage them without fucking up.

I partly agree, but I think it's also missing a Mission - if you go with the cliche story of generic Rebellious young male goes into the Military and comes out a productive member of society - Rules are needed, Meritocracy is needed, Heirachy and consequences are needed - but also is a purpose - a Mission.

It's one thing to know where you are, another to know where you need to go. Thinking along another highly social, predatory Mammal - anyone who has had an intelligent dog breed will know the Axiom of "If you don't give your dog something to do, they will find something to do and it won't be something you like".

**TheDemonLord** · 17th October 2018, 14:16

Originally Posted by pritch

I'm certainly looking forward to your account of all the rehabilitation facilities available in prison. The only former inmates I've spoken to about prison didn't mention any.

I did receive an interesting description of the random drug testing program though.

Well, I did say "Should" did I not?

Point is - if all we do is send them to prison, let them out, wait for them to re-offend (which with our recidivism rates is quite likely) then send them back etc. etc. - what is the point?

However, consider this - we send them to prison, we provide them with tools and methods to be a productive member of society, they get out, integrate back into society and start to be productive citizens.

Which version tells the better story?