The American (USA) 2016 presidential elections thread?

[husaberg]

Once again, it was Romeo Dallaire who claimed it - not me.

And there's a good chance he'd have a considerably better idea than you would.

prior you said he did say it, Yet you are sill to produce a Quote i challenged you to thus the claim was made by you and your ilk.
As i told you have have read his cables to the UN more troops wasnt his consistant request. A increased madates, approvial for Raids on weapons caches, Plus a rediefind roi were.
Like i said you never even knew the UN had peace keeping troops in Rwanda let alone who Dallaire was so don't go on claiming more stuff or you are some sort of expert on the matter.
You made all sorts of clams about preventing Rwandan Genocide and how it was the US's fault yet didn't even know there was a official UN peacekeeping mission there. EPIC.

[Katman]

prior you said he did say it, Yet you are sill to produce a Quote i challenged you to thus the claim was made by you and your ilk.
As i told you have have read his cables to the UN more troops wasnt his consistant request. A increased madates, approvial for Raids on weapons caches, Plus a redininded roi were.
Like i said you never even knew the UN had peace keeping troops in Rwanda let alone who Dallaire was so don't go on claiming more stuff or you are some sort of expert on the matter.
You made all sorts of clams about preventing Rwandan Genocide and how it was the US's fault yet didn't even know there was a official UN peacekeeping mission there. EPIC.

Have a read. It might give you a short break from being repeatedly proven to be a total utter moron in public.

https://www.refworld.org/pdfid/4d1da8752.pdf

[TheDemonLord]

No, it's more likely to just be the fact that they lost a few soldiers - and a couple of expensive helicopters.

Which, if it creates Public goodwill, is a small price to pay.

They lost some expensive Helicopters in the OBL raid too - but the public reaction was rather different. As Callous as this will sound - a Politician has Lives and Equipment they can gamble with, it's the public perception that they answer to.

Oh the Irony.

Criticise America for not stepping in and being World Police in one occasion.
Criticise America for stepping in and being World Police in every other occasion.

But, we've demonstrated your critique over Rwanda is just hot air - you'll never accept the use of Force that kills/Maims Innocent Civillians - which means you don't accept the use of Force. If you want to be a principled Pacifist - that is your right, just be honest about it.

[husaberg]

Have a read. It might give you a short break from being repeatedly proven to be a total utter moron in public.

https://www.refworld.org/pdfid/4d1da8752.pdf

Why dont you read stuff before posting it nowhere at that tribunal did Romeo Dallaire make a submission to the tribinual
hint the people that did are listed in the last few pages.
So show us all the quote that it was a lack of numbers prior to the start of the genocide rather than the mandate being wrong the ROI being too restrictive or the UN failing to let him do his job that were the main causes.

[Katman]

But, we've demonstrated your critique over Rwanda is just hot air - you'll never accept the use of Force that kills/Maims Innocent Civillians - which means you don't accept the use of Force. If you want to be a principled Pacifist - that is your right, just be honest about it.

I have a two metre tall bookcase that is packed to overflowing with books almost solely covering New Zealand's involvement in wars - so I wouldn't call myself a pacifist per se.

But yes, I have very strong principles regarding the execution of war.

[husaberg]

Which, if it creates Public goodwill, is a small price to pay.

They lost some expensive Helicopters in the OBL raid too - but the public reaction was rather different. As Callous as this will sound - a Politician has Lives and Equipment they can gamble with, it's the public perception that they answer to.



Oh the Irony.

Criticise America for not stepping in and being World Police in one occasion.
Criticise America for stepping in and being World Police in every other occasion.

But, we've demonstrated your critique over Rwanda is just hot air - you'll never accept the use of Force that kills/Maims Innocent Civillians - which means you don't accept the use of Force. If you want to be a principled Pacifist - that is your right, just be honest about it.

The US lost 29 people in somaila
When the Mogadushi incident occured they only had 1200 people there the 10 or so lost was a big loss of Face
For instance in the first Golf war they only lost 149.
Pictures and Videos of american bodies getting dragged through streets tends to makes congress reticent to deploy troops. Not the cost of Helicopters
In Rwand the people realized this and ambushed and killed the Belgian UN troops leading to their immediate withdrawal when the UN refused to allow them to deployand protect themselves in such away it was safe.
Katman is the epitome of hypocary on almost any subject always ready to shift blame yet when questioned has no answers or evidence

.

But yes, I have very strong principles regarding the execution of war.

Yet no principals when it comes to telling the truth about German execution of jews.

[Katman]

Which, if it creates Public goodwill, is a small price to pay.

Make up your mind. Only a couple of posts ago you were trying to suggest it created a public backlash and outrage.

[Katman]

Why dont you read stuff before posting it nowhere at that tribunal did Romeo Dallaire make a submission to the tribinual

Did you read paragraphs 10.8 and 10.9?

In fact, the whole of Chapter 10 is well worth reading.

[husaberg]

Did you read paragraphs 10.8 and 10.9?

In fact, the whole of Chapter 10 is well worth reading.

Well post it then go on...
Show where he says it was only the number of troops rather than the mandate and the will of the UN to allow him to do this job.
Afterall you state the reason was 2500 troups not being there. Rather than any other reason.
Or do you just pick and choose.
Post the full quotes un edited or just slink off and change the subject again.

[jasonu]

Funny how Katman claimsfonly 5000 troops were used Rwanda genocide would not have happened.
t.

Executive Outcomes had that situation on the way to being controlled with only 2 or 3 hundred properly trained soldiers until the UN told them to leave.

[Katman]

Well post it then go on...

It's right there in the link I posted.

(Or has your search capability suddenly deserted you?)

[husaberg]

It's right there in the link I posted.

(Or has your search capability suddenly deserted you?)

As a said post the quotes

[Katman]

As a said post the quotes

As I said, fuck off and read the link.

[husaberg]

Executive Outcomes had that situation on the way to being controlled with only 2 or 3 hundred properly trained soldiers until the UN told them to leave.

Clinton was in power by then and wanted out the peak deployment was 25000 and at the time was down to 1200

Prior to the incident and actually the reson they were after the leaders was

On 5 June 1993, one of the deadliest attacks on U.N. forces in Somalia occurred when 24 Pakistani soldiers were ambushed and killed in an Aidid-controlled area of Mogadishu.
Any hope of a peaceful resolution of the conflict quickly vanished. The next day, the U.N. Security Council issued Resolution 837, calling for the arrest and trial of those that carried out the ambush. U.S. warplanes and U.N. troops began an attack on Aidid's stronghold. Aidid remained defiant, and the violence between Somalis and U.N. forces escalated.

Afterwards they Following the battle, President Clinton ordered that additional troops be added to protect U.S. soldiers and aid in withdrawal. All military actions were ceased on 6 October, except in cases of self-defense.] Clinton called for a full withdrawal by 31 March 1994. Conforming to this request, most troops were out of the country by 25 March 1994. A few hundred U.S. Marines remained offshore, but were completely removed from the area by March 1995. The U.N. withdrew as well.

Legacy
U.S. Secretary of Defense Les Aspin resigned his post late in 1993. He was specifically blamed for denying the U.S. Army permission to have its own armor units in place in Somalia, units which might have been able to break through to the trapped soldiers earlier in the battle. U.S. political leaders thought the presence of tanks would spoil the peacekeeping image of the mission.

As I said, fuck off and read the link.

Quoted to show your desperation nd lack of ability to post the quote you claim says one thing but actaully says what i said all along.
If you had nothing to hide why is it you refuse to post the quotes

[Katman]

Quoted to show your desperation nd lack of ability to post the quote you claim says one thing but actaully says what i said all along.
If you had nothing to hide why is it you refuse to post the quotes

Everyone reading this thread has the ability to read the study that I provided the link for.

I'm clearly not trying to hide anything.