The American (USA) 2016 presidential elections thread?

[TheDemonLord]

I don't lay claim to knowing what it takes to control a country in the Middle East which has opposing factions.

But the term 'brutal dictator' is very dependent on how much you believe the narrative that the mainstream media is intent on spreading.

That's an implicit acceptance then, isn't it.

You'd happily accept a thousand corpses, just so long as you didn't have blood on your hands from a single one.

As for Brutal Dictator:

Secret Police.
State Torture.
State Murder.
Genocide.

All of which are fairly well documented, given what came after said dictatorships (more of the same, just by different groups), it's not like you can say these were outliers or one-offs or something being made up.

[Katman]

That's an implicit acceptance then, isn't it.

You'd happily accept a thousand corpses, just so long as you didn't have blood on your hands from a single one.

As for Brutal Dictator:

Secret Police.
State Torture.
State Murder.
Genocide.

All of which are fairly well documented, given what came after said dictatorships (more of the same, just by different groups), it's not like you can say these were outliers or one-offs or something being made up.

Like I said, I don't claim to know what it takes to control a Middle East country with opposing factions.

And I suspect you don't either.

[austingtir]

I don't lay claim to knowing what it takes to control a country in the Middle East which has opposing factions.

But the term 'brutal dictator' is very dependent on how much you believe the narrative that the mainstream media is intent on spreading.

Brutal dictator most likely...... But he's deff crazy:

https://twitter.com/SSG_PAIN/status/1214557508825538563




When Trump starts acting like this sugilite and co and give me a call.





"Intel Shows Soleimani Was a CIA Asset, Protected by Obama Administration

Regarding Soleimani’s death, President Trump tweeted: “He should have been taken out years ago.”

“Should have been taken out”…so why wasn’t he? Was he like Osama Bin Laden, hidden away in the mountains somewhere? Were his movements so stealthy even our intelligence apparatus couldn’t track him? No, and no!

For years Soleinami left his bloody fingerprints on terror acts across the Middle East. Flush with cash from Obama’s 150-billion-dollar money drop, he had all the resources he needed to keep on killing Iran’s enemies. He was arrogant and powerful and our number one enemy in the Middle East. So, why wasn’t he worried about being taken out, as the other terrorist leaders had been?"

https://www.dcclothesline.com/2020/0...dministration/

[MaxPenguin]

And while there's still obviously a great degree of unrest between factions of differing political and religious groups in the Middle East, it's an undeniable fact that entities like the CIA have poured plenty of fuel on the fire by funding one or the other side.

All in the name of destabilizing that country.

Because destabilized countries are less able to resist the expansion of another country which has empire building as their goal.

First they destabize them, then when it all turns to shit they send in the cavalry to save the day. USA are terrorists plain and simple.Terrorism is a cheap way of ensuring supply of oil. Just another COGS.

[austingtir]

First they destabize them, then when it all turns to shit they send in the cavalry to save the day. USA are terrorists plain and simple.Terrorism is a cheap way of ensuring supply of oil. Just another COGS.

I dont get this argument.

IF the USA was not doing this somebody else would and at the current stage its probably going to be China/Russia between them that will push in for control of the resources and give these countries protection so that they are UNTOUCHABLE. Thats not going to benefit us in any way shape or form.



Now has elements of the CIA and military industrial complex got out of control? For sure and imo Trump is in the process of sorting that out right now but to do that he's having to break a few eggs.

Which is why we see the CIA controlled MSM spinning every single thing Trump does.

[austingtir]

Iran = Mad Lads confirmed.

[TheDemonLord]

Like I said, I don't claim to know what it takes to control a Middle East country with opposing factions.

And I suspect you don't either.

I do know one thing:

It doesn't justify the Tyranny of a Dictator that tortures people.

And those are the words that you will not speak. You dance around the question avoiding the fundamental moral question: What is the Price of Stability, What is the cost of Freedom.

I am happy to state that being free from murderous dictators/warlords/factions comes with a cost that is ALWAYS worth paying.

Because I hold those things to be deeply and fundamentally wrong. I would not wish it upon myself nor would I wish it upon anyone else (although a few do come pretty damn close, if only so they can learn why such things are bad).

The inherent proof of this is there are plenty of shitholes around the world, being run by dictators just as vicious and nasty as those in the Middle East - name one that you would want to live in, then go live there and let us know how you get on.

[Katman]

I do know one thing:

It doesn't justify the Tyranny of a Dictator that tortures people.

What about America's policy on torture?

[pritch]

On a slightly different note, I see another person connected to the Trump campaign has been charged with obstruction for falsifying evidence.

Also the prosecution has recommended a six month jail sentence for General Flynn.

Trump’s associates are a gang of thieves, spies, and pedophiles, but he’s clean as a whistle. Yeah right.

[TheDemonLord]

What about America's policy on torture?

I'll answer that question when you resolve you Moral Conundrum and actually decide whether or not a brutal dictatorship is worth it.

That said, as bad as I find the Waterboarding, Abu Graib and other instances - there's a bit of a difference between Capturing and interrogating enemy combatants and flogging someone repeatedly for missing a Penalty in a game of Football.

So if you want to talk about 'America's policy on Torture' - let's make sure we are comparing apples with apples eh?

[Katman]

That said, as bad as I find the Waterboarding, Abu Graib and other instances - there's a bit of a difference between Capturing and interrogating enemy combatants and flogging someone repeatedly for missing a Penalty in a game of Football.

It goes way beyond just a bit of waterboarding in Abu Graib.

It includes the willful handing over of prisoners to local authorites in the full knowledge that those prisoners will most likely to be subjected to torture.

Even New Zealand soldiers have been guilty of that.

[TheDemonLord]

It goes way beyond just a bit of waterboarding in Abu Graib.

It includes the willful handing over of prisoners to local authorites in the full knowledge that those prisoners will most likely to be subjected to torture.

Even New Zealand soldiers have been guilty of that.

So, should we invade those other authorities to make sure they don't do that?

[Katman]

So, should we invade those other authorities to make sure they don't do that?

It happens in countries that America has already invaded.

[pritch]

Even New Zealand soldiers have been guilty of that.

I really don't want to get involved in this little merry go round but...

The New Zealand soldiers were not "guilty" of anything. It is completely normal to hand prisoners to the authorities in the country concerned.

Are you suggesting that all prisoners captured are brought back to NZ? Because that seems to be the alternative.

[Katman]

The New Zealand soldiers were not "guilty" of anything. It is completely normal to hand prisoners to the authorities in the country concerned.

They handed them over in the full knowledge that they would most likely be subjected to torture.