The American (USA) 2016 presidential elections thread?

[Katman]

And what is the right circumstances?

And that's what is eating away at you.

You're trying to pin me down to a hard and fast statement that you can then try to dissect - and I'm not playing the game.

As sugilite pointed out, there are countless factors that need to be taken into consideration.

Your problem is that your disorder allows you to only see things in black and white.

[husaberg]

eating away at you.
You're trying to pin me down to a hard and fast
you to only see things in black and white.

Sound more like 50 shades of GRAY
If you had a coherent argument, you wouldn't need to avoid straight answers.

[Katman]

Sound more like 50 shades of GRAY
If you had a coherent argument, you wouldn't need to avoid straight answers.

..........

what is totally predictable is you following me around and trolling.

[husaberg]

..........

One swallow doesnt make a spring now does it.
Should i list the number of obvious trolls post you have posted or the a list of questions you refuse to answer?

[pritch]

I think you'll find that there have been a great many number of pacifists who have placed themselves in positions of grave personal danger in order to save someone else's life.

"We Will Not Cease" by Archibald K Baxter, details how a group of WW1 conscientious objectors were taken from prison and put on a ship to Europe to fight.

The members of the group held on to their beliefs, despite whatever punishment/inducements could be devised, for varying amounts of time but Baxter alone held on until the end. In his case the end was him in a mental institution.

The methods used to induce these guys to take up arms were inhumane. The word 'torture' is an appropriate description, being tied standing to the barbed wire surrounding an ammunition dump during an artillery barrage was just one instance.

The book may be out of print but you should be able to get it through the library inter loan service if anyone is interested. No, you can't have mine.

[TheDemonLord]

And that's what is eating away at you.

You're trying to pin me down to a hard and fast statement that you can then try to dissect - and I'm not playing the game.

As sugilite pointed out, there are countless factors that need to be taken into consideration.

Your problem is that your disorder allows you to only see things in black and white.

I've given you multiple outs, where you could have given a nuanced answer - yet at each turn you refuse.

It's not that you don't want to play the game, it's because you can't.

Then, you make these grand faux-moral statements about the Political issue du jour, but never with any acknowledgement of things that align with your supposed ideals, in fact sometimes even contradicting your previous statements.

You say you are very much against Torture: The US just killed someone who was influential in setting up teams that did just that.

(here comes the kicker)

Even if you take umbrage with the method used, the way the US did it, the fact it was the US that did it or the fact you think there is an ulterior motive - you refuse to weigh the action taken in line with your self-confessed stance of opposing Torture.

Same with the comments earlier in the thread about Rwanda and when might it be applicable to take Military action to stop a developing incident knowing that civilians would be hurt and killed in the action - you cannot do it.

This is not to say that such arguments or factors should be taken lightly, nor is it to say that each scenario has the same variables that can be measured, weighed and accounted for. It is only to say that Yes - there are some times when it is right to act, knowing that to do so will mean innocent loss of life.

Instead all we ever get is 'America Bad, Israel Bad' - or perhaps to put it another way: I disagreed with the second Iraq war, I think the American Military were short-sighted in their goals, I think the Political establishment didn't have the will to properly rebuild Iraq etc. etc. But I'm still glad Saddamn is Dead.

THAT is 'what is eating me'.

[sugilite:Me]

If you think that Israel is the most important factor, you have to omit the increases of scale that have occurred due solely to the factors I listed.

Did you ever watch a dogs show back in the day? If so, think of me as that bloody stroppy belligerent sheep that simply refused to go into that pen the farmer had so carefully crafted.

Shitty yes, although I think there is a stretch with the disease thing - I'm not sure that Medical science was sufficiently understood (at the time) to know all the ramifications of their actions that would be required to make some of those statements.

However - Yes, the Colonial period definitely had it's fair share of atrocities, so fair point there.

Hmmm, "Hey Rogor, I say old chap, have you noticed how 100's of the natives turn their toes up just after we arrive?".

[Katman]

Instead all we ever get is 'America Bad, Israel Bad' - or perhaps to put it another way: I disagreed with the second Iraq war, I think the American Military were short-sighted in their goals, I think the Political establishment didn't have the will to properly rebuild Iraq etc. etc. But I'm still glad Saddamn is Dead.

You forgot to add, they had no fucking right or legitimate justification to invade the country in the first place.

[jasonu]

One swallow doesnt make a spring now does it.
Should i list the number of obvious trolls post you have posted or the a list of questions you refuse to answer?

or you could just stick to the ESE thread with all your little friends.

[MaxPenguin]

or you could just stick to the ESE thread with all your little friends.

Why subject them to his shit?

[jasonu]

Why subject them to his shit?

They all love him there. It's like a great big jerk circle for him.

[pritch]

Commiserations are due Austingtir. The latest investigation into Hillary Clinton has come up blank. No uranium sales, nothing.

Will he learn anything from this experience? Will he become more discerning in the drivel he chooses to believe?

Sadly that’s very unlikely.

[oldrider]

Israelis don't want to be America's pawns in the Middle East any longer. We've suffered enough? https://twitter.com/Independent/stat...68738059194368 -

The eternal "Victim"

[husaberg]

-

The eternal "Victim"

Oddly it's you are the one always claiming to be the victim of the Evil jew conspiracy against you..........

I guess its a co-incidence that one of Geobels propaganda films was called the eternal Jew..........

[oldrider]

Feel better now do we? -