The American (USA) 2016 presidential elections thread?

[sugilite:Me]

I've only insulted those who have insulted me first Doc so pull your head in will ya.

You poor sensitive snowflake gotnuthin, cannot take what you dish out eh

[sugilite:Me]

To be fair, the 2 are very tightly correlated...

Just a thought.

Another one are these:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...50086491230209

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...67267312152576

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...03402457812992

Without making comment on what action he has or has not taken and when it should or should not have been taken.
Without making comment on the stylistic choices of delivery or the repetitiveness of the oratory.

You do have to admit that as a Hype-man for the United States, he's doing a great job. And as a serious point, maybe that is what is needed, someone who by their sheer undiminished positivity (for their country) inspires others to achieve things that they otherwise couldn't.

I disagree, plenty of Republicans think Trump is a dick.
You can stick to your guns on him doing a great job, I will stick to mine that he is not.
Sure there is a lot of mud being thrown at him that is just plain stupid. For instance him calling the virus a Chinese with associated reaction is ridiculous, as it did originate in China.
His initial handling of the virus and aspects to this day are simply disgraceful though.
In response. I will be stockpiling - popcorn! For if the scenario where the dems win the senate and Trump wins the presidency occurs

[TheDemonLord]

I disagree, plenty of Republicans think Trump is a dick.

There are some, for sure, but usually on closer inspection, there are some interesting facets to said republicans.

You can stick to your guns on him doing a great job, I will stick to mine that he is not.
Sure there is a lot of mud being thrown at him that is just plain stupid. For instance him calling the virus a Chinese with associated reaction is ridiculous, as it did originate in China.

Probably the single most accurate statement - the mud flinging that is (at best) petty point scoring is really what galvanizes people like me in my support.

I'm all for criticising politicians (even those I like) when they do something stupid, and praising politicians (and especially those I don't like) when they do something good.

It's the one-way traffic that's an issue.

His initial handling of the virus and aspects to this day are simply disgraceful though.

Maybe, although once he reached the point of taking action, he did take some pretty decisive action.

[Bonez]

You poor sensitive snowflake gotnuthin, cannot take what you dish out eh

I am handling it very well Doc

[Bonez]

There are some, for sure, but usually on closer inspection, there are some interesting facets to said republicans.



Probably the single most accurate statement - the mud flinging that is (at best) petty point scoring is really what galvanizes people like me in my support.

I'm all for criticising politicians (even those I like) when they do something stupid, and praising politicians (and especially those I don't like) when they do something good.

It's the one-way traffic that's an issue.



Maybe, although once he reached the point of taking action, he did take some pretty decisive action.

Exactly. ?Those with blinders on need a poke in the eye.

[Viking01]

Maybe, although once he reached the point of taking action, he did take some pretty decisive action.

There would be those who argue "why so late", given that the US had the benefit of seeing the Chinese situation unfold before their eyes.

And they'd likely argue whether the action taken was decisive. In that it implies that there is some "master plan" underpinning the actions. Encompassing both internal and external action.

Yes, he's closed the borders, and the Fed has created $1.5 trillion in new money. But the GOP has been fighting within itself as to just whom should be the recipient of the newly created largesse (before the House of Reps then disappeared off on indefinite break):

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/...s-transparency

Perhaps some sign of hope for the average US citizen today, with the prospects of direct payments:

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/4...virus-outbreak

And while the Fed has created 1.5 trillion, it's not at all clear how that money will actually make its way down to businesses and citizens alike. Especially when the usual "pigs at the trough" appear to have lost their appetite:

https://wallstreetonparade.com/2020/...re-in-trouble/

Perhaps the major US banks have a separate problem of their own which is taking most of their attention:

https://wolfstreet.com/2020/03/15/pa...it-limit-down/

And it must be serious when bank share buybacks are suspended:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/antoine.../#45efdc2a1189

[Edit]

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...rus-aid-133732

[TheDemonLord]

There would be those who argue "why so late", given that the US had the benefit of seeing the Chinese situation unfold before their eyes.

And they'd likely argue whether the action taken was decisive. In that it implies that there is some "master plan" underpinning the actions. Encompassing both internal and external action.

Yes, he's closed the borders, and the Fed has created $1.5 trillion in new money. But the GOP has been fighting within itself as to just whom should be the recipient of the newly created largesse (before the House of Reps then disappeared off on indefinite break):

Fair points - although in this situation, doing anything (or not doing anything) has important consequences. Jump too early and people loose confidence and say you overreacted. Move too late and those same people level a different critique.

And I should be clear - I don't think we are in a position yet to judge what the appropriate course of action is/was/will be.

As for the recipients - Democrats typically favor giving it to the individual, hoping that it will promote spending, increase money velocity etc. Republics tend to favor giving it to business so that they can stay running and paying wages, which keeps the money velocity going.

[sugilite:Me]

There are some, for sure, but usually on closer inspection, there are some interesting facets to said republicans.

I could not say, I have not had time to interview them all like you seem to off

Probably the single most accurate statement - the mud flinging that is (at best) petty point scoring is really what galvanizes people like me in my support.

I'm all for criticising politicians (even those I like) when they do something stupid, and praising politicians (and especially those I don't like) when they do something good.

It's the one-way traffic that's an issue.

I do not recall you criticizing Trump much, if at all. I do recall you giving what is in my opinion pretty flimsy (at best) free passes to him.

Maybe, although once he reached the point of taking action, he did take some pretty decisive action.

Like this one - I rest my case.
And I'm quite sure that only when it was pointed out to him that he was torching his re-election hopes did he actually do something. He really has no business looking after the interest of the people like Presidents are supposed to do when all he knows, and has demonstrated time and time again in the past, is to look after himself and his own interests. Trump 1st.
Also I meant to comment on your earlier post: Cheerful positive moral boosting tweeting of barefaced lies, is not good leadership or ultimately good for the people he is charged with protecting.

[pritch]

This morning the stable genius claims he was calling it a pandemic before anybody else. Yeah right! Perhaps I just imagined him calling it a hoax?

The Internet is full of lunacy, there was a claim that the virus is caused by 5G. Sherriff Clarke claimed the virus was started by George Soros. You may remember Clarke, he's the black Trump sycophant with a big hat who wore all sorts of "tin" medals and badges. He looked like a Christmas tree but it all meant nothing. Apparently he went totally over the top with his nonsense and Twitter canned his account.

The mega church preachers in the US are living down to their low reputation. Trump's White House spiritual adviser is hawking a Coronavirus cure. Another prominent preacher is also selling snake oil but he is being sued.

There is a clip of a preacher telling his huge flock that they don't need to worry about the virus because no evil can hurt them in God's house. Another one says drinking garlic water will cure the virus.

There's a clip one of these arseholes holding his open but slimy hand toward the camera, if you touch his hand on your screen you'll be cured of the virus. He's the same one who was asked why he needed two private jets. His reply?
"Next time Jesus comes he won't be riding a donkey."

Can't have the people not coming to church, that'd stop the dollars rolling in.

Considering the circumstances it's nteresting, if not surprising, that Trump's choice as Whitehouse Doctor does not actually hold a medical degree.

[sugilite:Me]

Fair points - although in this situation, doing anything (or not doing anything) has important consequences. Jump too early and people loose confidence and say you overreacted. Move too late and those same people level a different critique.

Oh PLEASE. He downplayed it all to the max despite being informed by the best minds on the subject in the US. Just more FPFT (Free Pass For Trump)
Perhaps closely related to DMPAAC (Defend My Position At All Cost)?

And I should be clear - I don't think we are in a position yet to judge what the appropriate course of action is/was/will be.

Yes, why plan for the worst case scenario when experiencing one would be much more fun.

As for the recipients - Democrats typically favor giving it to the individual, hoping that it will promote spending, increase money velocity etc. Republics tend to favor giving it to business so that they can stay running and paying wages, which keeps the money velocity going.

Yes, I well remember in 2008/9 Democrat Obama giving the money to the people most in need, the BANKING people that is! They really deserved and needed those bonuses for killing the World economy.

[TheDemonLord]

I could not say, I have not had time to interview them all like you seem to off

Not interview - but I've noticed that (like the Democrats) there are differences of opinion, There's your Religious conservatives, the disillusioned center-left Conservative, Conservatives who use the title to advance their own agenda (and many more types)etc.

From what I've seen, most of the traditional Conservatives (including those who criticized the President prior to his ascension) hold to the "He's the President now, it's our duty to support him, even if we might privately think he's a knob" and act as such.

I do not recall you criticizing Trump much, if at all. I do recall you giving what is in my opinion pretty flimsy (at best) free passes to him.

I've certainly said his manner of speaking is a bit 'unique', he's a risk taker (sometimes not what is needed), he probably shouldn't tweet as much as he does.

But in fairness to your point, most of the time I pipe up is when I feel he's being unreasonably smeared. He's yet to do anything that I would consider particularly egregious.

Like this one - I rest my case.
And I'm quite sure that only when it was pointed out to him that he was torching his re-election hopes did he actually do something. He really has no business looking after the interest of the people like Presidents are supposed to do when all he knows, and has demonstrated time and time again in the past, is to look after himself and his own interests. Trump 1st.

So, you are saying that he listens when he needs to and that somehow this makes him a bad leader?

Also I meant to comment on your earlier post: Cheerful positive moral boosting tweeting of barefaced lies, is not good leadership or ultimately good for the people he is charged with protecting.

What Barefaced lies? Positive statements of 'We will get through this' - I'm not sure how that could be a barefaced lie. Mildly gushing and obnoxious, irritatingly optimistic, but Barefaced lie?

Even then however, it's been well documented that people who are regarded as 'good leaders' have said things that (at the time) were untrue, in order to inspire those underneath them to make it true.

Oh PLEASE. He downplayed it all to the max despite being informed by the best minds on the subject in the US. Just more FPFT (Free Pass For Trump)
Perhaps closely related to DMPAAC (Defend My Position At All Cost)?

I do believe I said that I don't think we can declare what would be the right course of action, and in the clarity of time, I may have to agree that his action/inaction was a poor choice. However, I see this (and feel free to FPFT this) that until it's time to take action, then you carry on BAU.

Yes, why plan for the worst case scenario when experiencing one would be much more fun.

Cost Benefit, it's impossible to plan appropriately for every worst case scenario and when enacting plans can seriously screw over many different areas, prudence is needed. To be clear though, it needs to be weighed against Risk. It's a difficult decision and it may be that Trump made the wrong call and will need to be criticized for it. I don't know yet, we don't have the benefit of hindsight yet.

Yes, I well remember in 2008/9 Democrat Obama giving the money to the people most in need, the BANKING people that is! They really deserved and needed those bonuses for killing the World economy.

I did say 'Typically'... And I'll be honest, I'm on the fence for the Sub-Prime mortgage recovery process. Part of me thinks they should have let the Banks fail. Another part of me thinks back to the UK's bail-out of Rolls Royce (which has gone on to be very successful).

[pritch]

He really has no business looking after the interest of the people like Presidents are supposed to do when all he knows, and has demonstrated time and time again in the past, is to look after himself and his own interests. Trump 1st.

Interesting comment.

Trump refused to acquire the WHO testing kits used everywhere else in the world. He wanted US manufactured testing kits. He got some produced but there was a slight problem - they didn't work. Medical staff figured out how to make them work but could not use the kits because their method was not approved by the Food and Drug Administration. Very frustrating for the doctors involved.

There is a shortage of the kits because presumably the company producing them can't manufacture them in the quantity needed. The Chinese Billionaire, Jack Ma, offered the US help with masks and test kits, but Trump reportedly again refused the test kits.
The free test kits.

This shortage of functioning test kits did not trouble Trump overmuch because if there was no testing, there could be no confirmed cases.

Trump appointed his son-in-law Jared to be in charge of the response to the virus pandemic. That's actually illegal but never mind... In that capacity, presumably Jared was party to the decision to award the contract for the supply of test kits to a company called Oscar Health. Oscar Health was co-founded by a Joshua Kushner. If that name seems familiar that's because he's Jared Kushner's brother.

What a coincidence!


Anybody who thinks the Trump family is not profiting from the pandemic is fucking simple.

[jasonu]

Interesting comment.

Trump refused to acquire the WHO testing kits used everywhere else in the world. He wanted US manufactured testing kits. He got some produced but there was a slight problem - they didn't work. Medical staff figured out how to make them work but could not use the kits because their method was not approved by the Food and Drug Administration. Very frustrating for the doctors involved.

There is a shortage of the kits because the company producing them can't manufacture them in the quantity needed. The Chinese Billionaire, Jack Ma, offered the US help with masks and test kits, but Trump reportedly again refused the test kits.
The free test kits.

This shortage of functioning test kits did not trouble Trump overmuch because if there was no testing, there would be no confirmed cases.

Trump appointed his son-in-law Jared to be in charge of the response to the virus pandemic. That's actually illegal but never mind... In that capacity, presumably Jared was party to the decision to award the contract for the supply of test kits to a company called Oscar Health. Oscar Health was co-founded by a Joshua Kushner. If that name seems familiar that's because he's Jared Kushner's brother.

What a coincidence!


Anybody who believes anything I post is fucking simple.

Edited for accuracy.

[sugilite:Me]

Not interview - but I've noticed that (like the Democrats) there are differences of opinion, There's your Religious conservatives, the disillusioned center-left Conservative, Conservatives who use the title to advance their own agenda (and many more types)etc.

From what I've seen, most of the traditional Conservatives (including those who criticized the President prior to his ascension) hold to the "He's the President now, it's our duty to support him, even if we might privately think he's a knob" and act as such.

Sigh, so you basically confirm that as I said, there are republicans who know he is a dick too.

I've certainly said his manner of speaking is a bit 'unique', he's a risk taker (sometimes not what is needed), he probably shouldn't tweet as much as he does.

Ouch, a stinging rebuke on Trump - not.

But in fairness to your point, most of the time I pipe up is when I feel he's being unreasonably smeared. He's yet to do anything that I would consider particularly egregious.

Sure, as is your right.

So, you are saying that he listens when he needs to and that somehow this makes him a bad leader?

He needed to listen a hell of a lot sooner to qualify as a good leader.

What Barefaced lies? Positive statements of 'We will get through this' - I'm not sure how that could be a barefaced lie. Mildly gushing and obnoxious, irritatingly optimistic, but Barefaced lie?

I'm encompassing most of his recent tweets regarding the virus, not cherry picking his one benign one. Downplaying it is a lie, Saying he has a good grasp of science is a lie, saying his gut feeling that the death rate is lower than what WHO is saying is as good as a lie. People (dimwits) look to him for guidance. If taken seriously, his guidance is terrible. If you want me to find his lying tweets, we both know neither of us has enough time to either find or read them.

Even then however, it's been well documented that people who are regarded as 'good leaders' have said things that (at the time) were untrue, in order to inspire those underneath them to make it true.

So that would be within your criteria for how you next vote? "Will this leader be shit enough to inspire others around them to become greater?"
Smacking of DMPAAC there bro.

I do believe I said that I don't think we can declare what would be the right course of action, and in the clarity of time, I may have to agree that his action/inaction was a poor choice. However, I see this (and feel free to FPFT this) that until it's time to take action, then you carry on BAU.

Cost Benefit, it's impossible to plan appropriately for every worst case scenario and when enacting plans can seriously screw over many different areas, prudence is needed. To be clear though, it needs to be weighed against Risk. It's a difficult decision and it may be that Trump made the wrong call and will need to be criticized for it. I don't know yet, we don't have the benefit of hindsight yet.

How many coffins would it take to make the right decision? Sorry Mr Demonlord, that logic based on all the deaths in a short space of time, and now people are even getting re-infected now - is moronic. You need treatment for the serious case of DMPAAC.

I did say 'Typically'... And I'll be honest, I'm on the fence for the Sub-Prime mortgage recovery process. Part of me thinks they should have let the Banks fail. Another part of me thinks back to the UK's bail-out of Rolls Royce (which has gone on to be very successful).

I was going back to the last time where an emergency requiring cash handouts was last implemented in the US? Are there more recent ones I'm missing?

[pritch]

Germany has ordered churches and brothels to close. Sounds fair.