Trump - 4 more years of this at least...

[TheDemonLord]

It's only Facebook.

Except it's now become a primary means for all Political Parties to engage with their voter base.

[sugilite:Me]

Well you seem to be getting plenty of practice.

Ok Mr perfect, so the bonez apology, and the demonlord misquote - what else?

[sugilite:Me]

Sometimes you do seem a bit too keen to do that, or perhaps to see good in people where little exists.

Imagine if you will a purely hypothetical scenario where perhaps someone claimed the only reason they disliked illegal immigrants was because they were illegal. You might be inclined to respect their opinion. I on the other hand would be more inclined to think they might be full of shit. If, for instance, they were then to include words like boongahs or coons in subsequent posts, I would feel completely justified in my assessment.

You may well be a nicer person than am I. (Space left here for inane comment from the cheap seats.)

All of which is purely speculation of course.

The way I look at it is I cannot control what others do and say, I can only be responsible for what I say and do. If I get it wrong, then I admit it. My response is not dependent on whether the other person is a rat bag or not.
If people want to give me a hard time about my being honest and owning up to a mistake, I view it as a weakness/flaw in their character - not mine.
Less honesty rarely makes the World a better place.

[FJRider]

Or perhaps an issue closer to home: Facebook disabling the Advance NZ Party Facebook page. I shall be clear, I don't like Advance NZ and I think Jamie-Lee Curtis is a twat of the highest order.

Surely, shutting down the Facebook page of another countries Political Party 3 days before a general election would be considered interfering with the Election of another sovereign nation, regardless of whether they are likely or unlikely to get into Parliament.

Whichever way you slice it, this is wrong and is likely to have repercussions.

Facebook has rules ... Just like KB. Facebook just doesn't have a pink palace ... like KB.

Just what "Repercussions" are you expecting ...???

Advance New Zealand's Facebook account had been removed for repeatedly breaching the misinformation policies.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political...xgYAA08sNi_Few

A Facebook spokesperson told RNZ: "We don't allow anyone to share misinformation on our platforms about Covid-19 that could lead to imminent physical harm. We have clear policies against this type of content and will enforce on these policies regardless of anyone's political position or party affiliation.

"We removed Advance New Zealand / New Zealand Public Party's Facebook page for repeated violations of this policy."

"interfering with the Election of another sovereign nation" ... really .. ?? If they're relying on a Facebook page to spread their misinformation ... no wonder the page got pulled. Next you'll be saying ... it's not their fault.


And the Advance Party reply ...

"If Facebook wants advertising revenue from New Zealanders, then Facebook must recognise free speech in our nation," Te Kahika says.

Perhaps ... Free speech isn't as free (on Facebook) as some of the Advance Party leadership thought it was.

If they Paid for "Advertising" ... perhaps they should ask for their money back.

OR ... just follow the rules.




Just saying ...

[pritch]

I'm not sure how you can class it as hysterical pearl clutching, when they actually did it.

It was of no great consequence. Anyhoo Twitter have buckled.

The rule that caused them to act in this instance was a rule about people posting hacked material as happened during the 2016 election. They acted this time in the belief that the materiel Giuliani provded was potentially hacked. Threats of a Senate subpoena appear to have caused Jack's spine to soften. They will still block material from hackers but hacked material from an intermediary will simply attract a warning label.

I'm not sure that pdf files purporting to be emails, but which more probably came form a GRU unit in Moscow and fed to a willing useful idiot, actually qualify as hacked.

Time will tell, but like all of Trump's other whining about being a victim of the 'greatest political crime in history' this too will likely fizzle.

[sugilite:Me]

So it was dueling town halls for Trump and Biden. I was curious about the ratings - figuring Trump would of cleaned up in that area. I know the below is unlikely to be super accurate, but a interesting indicator none the less.

"At the end of Trump's town hall, the NBC News YouTube channel showed 153,660 viewers were watching. ABC News's YouTube channel showed 507,445 viewers at the end of Biden's town hall."
https://www.newsweek.com/youtube-vie...atings-1539635

Looks like people are over it after 4 seasons of the low budget reality tv show "President Trump".
Who can blame them

[pritch]

So it was dueling town halls for Trump and Biden. I was curious about the ratings - figuring Trump would of cleaned up in that area. I know the below is unlikely to be super accurate, but a interesting indicator none the less.

"At the end of Trump's town hall, the NBC News YouTube channel showed 153,660 viewers were watching. ABC News's YouTube channel showed 507,445 viewers at the end of Biden's town hall."
https://www.newsweek.com/youtube-vie...atings-1539635

Looks like people are over it after 4 seasons of the low budget reality tv show "President Trump".
Who can blame them

Yeah, his worst nightmare, bad ratings.

[FJRider]

Sometimes you do seem a bit too keen to do that, or perhaps to see good in people where little exists.

It's called "giving the benefit of doubt". Sometimes we know they're right ... (but prefer they weren't) But ... sometimes you know they are right. And know you are wrong. The action then taken is up to their own personal principals. If the person concerned has any.

Sometimes ... we know the other might be lying ... but we have to give them the benefit of the doubt and accept what they say ... for now.

Well ... until we find (or look for) the evidence to prove them wrong.

[FJRider]

Except it's now become a primary means for all Political Parties to engage with their voter base.

Don't they have telephones ... ??

[TheDemonLord]

It was of no great consequence.

On the Contrary, they've opened Pandoras Box.

Anyhoo Twitter have buckled.

And why do you think that is? The rule they cited as to why the blocked it pertained to information obtained and circulated without permission.

Did Twitter block any reference to the Trump Tax returns? I'm certain that was information obtained and circulated without Permission. So why the disparity - why is Trump's Tax returns allowed but Biden's emails not?

Therein lies the political bias within Twitter (and other Social Media companies) and the reason they buckled is because they know they've fucked up. They have definitively acted with an editorial oversight - and now, like the wayward schoolboy, they are being summoned to the HeadMasters office.

[TheDemonLord]

Facebook has rules ... Just like KB. Facebook just doesn't have a pink palace ... like KB.

Just what "Repercussions" are you expecting ...???

Advance New Zealand's Facebook account had been removed for repeatedly breaching the misinformation policies.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political...xgYAA08sNi_Few

When it comes to a Political Party, in an Election cycle, even if it is 'misinformation', Facebook interfere at their Peril.

"interfering with the Election of another sovereign nation" ... really .. ?? If they're relying on a Facebook page to spread their misinformation ... no wonder the page got pulled. Next you'll be saying ... it's not their fault.

Like it or not, Facebook is a place were political discussion is being held, It's the same logic that Trump's Twitter is protected under the 1st Amendment.

Regardless of their justification, rules or not - they have censured a Political Party, at a crucial time and this is an absolute violation of one of the most sacred values held in the Western world (despite certain group's best efforts).

And the Advance Party reply ...

Perhaps ... Free speech isn't as free (on Facebook) as some of the Advance Party leadership thought it was.

If they Paid for "Advertising" ... perhaps they should ask for their money back.

OR ... just follow the rules.

Just saying ...

Imagine for a moment that Advance NZ were polling around the 4-5% mark - with a reasonable chance of getting into Government, the Election happens (after their FB page is shutdown) and they get 3% of the Vote.

Polls are inaccurate (2016 anyone?) - but on that basis, they lodge a complaint, that this removal by a corporate entity directly influenced the election and their place in the Government.

It firstly casts light on the Legitimacy of the Election result, for the same reason that on Polling day you aren't allowed to indicate who you voted for or to express support for a Candidate.

Secondly - it sets a precedent, that a non-NZ Corporate entity can directly influence our Election - I don't know about you, but I don't particularly want to vote using a McBallot, in the 2023 election brought to you by Microsoft! and Budight, all of the flavour, with none of the Calories.

As I said, I don't like Advance as a party - this course of action should not be considered lightly.

[pritch]

On the Contrary, they've opened Pandoras Box.

Nah you've got it all wrong. Again.

I was looking for this earlier today but couldn't find it. It sums uo the situation in the USA with regards to freedom of speech and social media.

[FJRider]

When it comes to a Political Party, in an Election cycle, even if it is 'misinformation', Facebook interfere at their Peril.

Apart from the fact they knew (and have to follow) the rules ... you didn't say what "Repercussions" you were expecting.

None so far that I've noticed. What "Peril" ... Will thousands abandon facebook ... ???? Unlikely.

Like it or not, Facebook is a place were political discussion is being held, It's the same logic that Trump's Twitter is protected under the 1st Amendment.

So ... stopping some discussions on facebook is "Interfering with an election" ... ??? in YOUR opinion ... ??

I've seen a few "Political Discussions" on facebook. Nobody is going to miss much of real importance. All the Advance Party information is freely available elsewhere ... if those interested want to look.

Regardless of their justification, rules or not - they have censured a Political Party, at a crucial time and this is an absolute violation of one of the most sacred values held in the Western world (despite certain group's best efforts).

With good reason. If their Political aim is to spread misinformation ... it shouldn't be a party worth voting for.

Imagine for a moment that Advance NZ were polling around the 4-5% mark - with a reasonable chance of getting into Government, the Election happens (after their FB page is shutdown) and they get 3% of the Vote.

I haven't got the vivid imagination you have. Sorry. If you actually believe half the stuff you've posted on this ... it's probably the party best suited for you.

Polls are inaccurate (2016 anyone?) - but on that basis, they lodge a complaint, that this removal by a corporate entity directly influenced the election and their place in the Government.

Get on facebook yourself and moan about it. Polls are seldom accurate. Get over it. Shooting yourself in the foot (as the Advance party did) always slows you down.

It firstly casts light on the Legitimacy of the Election result, for the same reason that on Polling day you aren't allowed to indicate who you voted for or to express support for a Candidate.

Tell somebody that cares to think that might be the case.

The Public outcry throughout the country is not front page news in all the papers yet. Why would that be ... if the issue you claim was that serious ... ?? It's not. So there isn't.

Secondly - it sets a precedent, that a non-NZ Corporate entity can directly influence our Election - I don't know about you, but I don't particularly want to vote using a McBallot, in the 2023 election brought to you by Microsoft! and Budight, all of the flavour, with none of the Calories.

Exactly. The precedent is ... that if you break the rules ... under the guise of advertising ... you can EXPECT a similar action.

As I said, I don't like Advance as a party - this course of action should not be considered lightly.

Is the political message the Advance Party are trying to make ... considered by them to be just "Advertising" ... ??

Is trying to spread misinformation considered good advertising policy ... ??

I doubt if it was considered lightly. But they have their rules.



Your point is ... ??

[pritch]

It's the same logic that Trump's Twitter is protected under the 1st Amendment.

The first amandment is complicated. I've listened to a number of legal discusslons by qualified people but that didn't make it much easier.

The 1A protects the right of people, particularly the press, to criticise the government. In effect Trump is the government, is it your contention that the 1A protects him from himself?

There are seperate laws about presidential communications governing Trumps Twitter. He is supposed to keep everything, he is not supposed to delete tweets. Courts have made rulings about people replying to Trump's tweets. When Trump tweets he opens a virtual "public space" comparable to a park or village square where anybody may speak.

Too many people in the US think freedom of speech means they can say anything, that's wrong. That cartoon is a good summation, it's worth a careful read.

[pritch]

Oh, and just before I go to do my civic duty. In the ratings battle of the two town halls, Trump who was covered by three channels vs Biden who was covered by a single channel, Trump lost the ratings battle. His worst nightmare - bad ratings. Loser.