Biden

**TheDemonLord** · 28th January 2021, 08:37

Originally Posted by sugilite

It is at 5 minute charge now

Using someones words against them is only effective it it is actually meaningful - your effort is pfffffft.
10 to 15 years? They will probably have gone through 2 if not 3 completely different and better battery tech in that time.
You really are a dino

There's a world of difference between charging in 5 minutes in a controlled environment under ideal conditions and charging in 5 minutes in the real world.

10 -15 years is generally the time for a new technology (especially Tech where there are regulatory and safety hoops involved) to go from Proof of Concept (which is where we are at now) to: small scale test, large scale test, initial roll out and finally fullscale roll out.

Again - I'm quite excited for Electric Vehicles to mature to the point where they are on parity with Petrol vehicles, but until that happens it's premature.

Then after that we have to address the Elephant in the room for Electric Vehicles:

Where does the Electricity that power them come from? Solar? Wind? Nuclear? Fossil Fuels (oops!)? Geothermal? All of them have downsides - such as location, public perception, consistency etc.

Personally - I'm most interested in someone developing a means of reliably harvesting Electricity from Waves/Tides in the sea

**sugilite:Me** · 29th January 2021, 08:58

Originally Posted by TheDemonLord

There's a world of difference between charging in 5 minutes in a controlled environment under ideal conditions and charging in 5 minutes in the real world.

If you had read the article, the drawback right now is there are no chargers powerful enough - that will change fairly quickly. Oh, 3 major car manufacturers including Toyota have announced solid state battery vehicles for production in 2023.

Originally Posted by TheDemonLord

10 -15 years is generally the time for a new technology (especially Tech where there are regulatory and safety hoops involved) to go from Proof of Concept (which is where we are at now) to: small scale test, large scale test, initial roll out and finally fullscale roll out.

These batteries were produced in a factory - 1000 of them. It is not going to take 10 to 15 years before they are ready.

Originally Posted by TheDemonLord

Where does the Electricity that power them come from? Solar? Wind? Nuclear? Fossil Fuels (oops!)? Geothermal? All of them have downsides - such as location, public perception, consistency etc.

Personally - I'm most interested in someone developing a means of reliably harvesting Electricity from Waves/Tides in the sea

Tidal has it's proponents as well, environmental damage they say.
Lets simply pick options that are not going to kill billions in the future eh. Hot tip, it is not yet another oil pipeline.

**TheDemonLord** · 29th January 2021, 10:31

Originally Posted by sugilite

If you had read the article, the drawback right now is there are no chargers powerful enough - that will change fairly quickly. Oh, 3 major car manufacturers including Toyota have announced solid state battery vehicles for production in 2023.

So, the technology isn't Mature. This is not to knock it, but simply saying that if everything is ready in 2023 - what do the people who have lost their jobs between now and then do?

And that is assuming that there is perfect fluidity between someone who has spent 20-30 years specializing in an industry to working in a completely different industry.

Originally Posted by sugilite

These batteries were produced in a factory - 1000 of them. It is not going to take 10 to 15 years before they are ready.

Sure, but that's a small production run. That is 1/10th of a single day's worth of Production run for say a Corrolla. As an interesting aside - the Toyota Prius was first released in 1997, didn't really get a major release until 2004 and the plugin version (what we think of when someone says 'Prius') wasn't released until 2011.

Don't get me wrong - a rapid charge battery sounds great and I can't wait to see the progress, but to go from a production run of 1000 to a full scale run is going to take time.

Originally Posted by sugilite

Tidal has it's proponents as well, environmental damage they say.

Everything has a trade off - the main problem with Tidal is consistent power delivery and being able to handle storm surges. Apparently Waves don't care what they crash into

Originally Posted by sugilite

Lets simply pick options that are not going to kill billions in the future eh. Hot tip, it is not yet another oil pipeline.

I'm going to answer this with a bit of a story:

I have a book, on Energy production, it's a Kids book - but the interesting thing was that it was written in 1990s - in fact - it's this one: https://www.bookdepository.com/Energ.../9780746004227 - there's 2 things that are interesting in it.

The first is the tone - for example, there's a section on Nuclear Power which lists the positives of Nuclear power and some of the criticisms - and closes by inviting the reader to write to both sides of the argument and request more information, so that they make up their own mind.

The second is in the back of the book, it lists a number of stats about Energy production - including things like X million barrels per day and what the current reserves are and how long they are expected to last with the current reserves and the current rate of production.

Those predictions (with the advent of 30 years) have shown to be wrong. I also still have school books (that were written in the 80s) that have a similar section - listing current reserves and current consumption and making a prediction that and categorically wrong.

I'm going to end with this source: https://cei.org/blog/wrong-again-50-...c-predictions/ and the actual point:

The Claim that something we are doing now is going to Kill Billions in the future is a Claim that I've heard from the 'environmental' side for my entire life. And I've still got the books and the memory of where these claims were written and what the time-scales were. On every claim that they've made, they've been wrong. And not just a bit wrong, but completely wrong.

Does this mean that like the boy who called wolf, they should be dismissed out of hand? No. I look forward to functional green technologies that are both better for the environment AND fulfill all the requirements of the end user.

But that also means we should treat those with a particular vested interest in there being a Climate Crisis with a high degree of suspicion when they tell us that there is another catastrophe around the bend and we should remind ourselves that their predictions to date have been wrong.

**mashman** · 29th January 2021, 13:15

How do you stop a loon when authority has the loons' back.

**pritch** · 31st January 2021, 11:09

Ah now I see. All those American forest fires weren't caused by the states not sweeping the forest floor as Trump claimed. It was Jewish space lasers.

https://www.newsweek.com/marjorie-ta...ockery-1565325

**R650R** · 31st January 2021, 14:13

Originally Posted by sugilite

It is at 5 minute charge now

Using someones words against them is only effective it it is actually meaningful - your effort is pfffffft.
10 to 15 years? They will probably have gone through 2 if not 3 completely different and better battery tech in that time.
You really are a dino

Saw a good breakdown other day of how Lithium is the only metal suitable for the types of batteries needed for EV. And it has set lifecycle properties dictated by science. You can abuse all manner of batteries in quick charges briefly but long term it’s not effective. Also taking them them to zero or near zero charge is not good for them despite what some will claim.

Even Electric Jesus’s latest claim of new battery tech is not his, Panasonic owns the tech and it’s still just another lithium phosphate battery.
Lithium batteries aren’t new technology so don’t expect any major miracle advancement ts when the chemistry is already known.

**R650R** · 31st January 2021, 14:21

Originally Posted by sugilite

Lets simply pick options that are not going to kill billions in the future eh. Hot tip, it is not yet another oil pipeline.

The industrial revolution and fossil fuel agriculture has bought life to billions. The easy transport, storage and low cost has enabled mass industrial agriculture whi has fed billions....

Could you imagine the catastrophe if the grid went down and electric trucks and harvesters couldn’t be charged???! Never mind that such specialised gear is usually double shifted and never idle during harvest times.... You can’t stop and plug in when a rain storm is headed to wheat field...

**sugilite:Me** · 31st January 2021, 16:09

Originally Posted by R650R

The industrial revolution and fossil fuel agriculture has bought life to billions. The easy transport, storage and low cost has enabled mass industrial agriculture whi has fed billions....

Could you imagine the catastrophe if the grid went down and electric trucks and harvesters couldn’t be charged???! Never mind that such specialised gear is usually double shifted and never idle during harvest times.... You can’t stop and plug in when a rain storm is headed to wheat field...

I don't think that not going ahead with one pipeline is going to bring all that catastrophe to fruition.

**sugilite:Me** · 31st January 2021, 16:11

Originally Posted by R650R

Saw a good breakdown other day of how Lithium is the only metal suitable for the types of batteries needed for EV. And it has set lifecycle properties dictated by science. You can abuse all manner of batteries in quick charges briefly but long term it’s not effective. Also taking them them to zero or near zero charge is not good for them despite what some will claim.

Even Electric Jesus’s latest claim of new battery tech is not his, Panasonic owns the tech and it’s still just another lithium phosphate battery.
Lithium batteries aren’t new technology so don’t expect any major miracle advancement ts when the chemistry is already known.

And yet.....
https://www.mining.com/fast-charging...ng-the-market/

**pritch** · 31st January 2021, 17:45

Following the massive failure of the prophesies of QAnon you'd think the penny would have dropped. They are off again though, the recent inauguration was a sham apparently. The insanity is strong in the USA, and they still can't spell 'martial'...

**pritch** · 3rd February 2021, 20:48

This makes sense. So will doubtless come as a shock to some.

https://www.newsweek.com/us-jobs-inc...alysis-1566313

**R650R** · 4th February 2021, 18:54

Originally Posted by sugilite

And yet.....
https://www.mining.com/fast-charging...ng-the-market/

And yet another Electric Jesus style empty promise of salvation....

Written by “staff writer” translation cut and paste plagiarism from another publication “Nature Journal” sounds really scientific and credible lol...

The study by researchers at x University...well anything is possible in a lab but is it viable in real world conditions....

They use Watt hours instead of amp hour so to get a bigger more impressive sounding number. Given typical high dc voltages in EV cars a bit of maths says it’s a humble 100amp hour battery...

It has a range of 250 miles... powering what at what average speed and conditions???
It has a 2 million mile lifetime .... powering what and in what conditions
Absolute fluff piece...

Even once something commercially viable is made I’d derate whatever the manufacturer claims by at least 25%. Seen heaps in trucking industry where manufacturer claims a lot on paper about performance and service intervals but it’s not until you have real world commercial use that you see how something actually performs.
Iv’e no doubt stuff with decent range will come out soon but how long it lasts is another story..,

**Bonez** · 4th February 2021, 18:59

Originally Posted by R650R

And yet another Electric Jesus style empty promise of salvation....

Written by “staff writer” translation cut and paste plagiarism from another publication “Nature Journal” sounds really scientific and credible lol...

The study by researchers at x University...well anything is possible in a lab but is it viable in real world conditions....

They use Watt hours instead of amp hour so to get a bigger more impressive sounding number. Given typical high dc voltages in EV cars a bit of maths says it’s a humble 100amp hour battery...

It has a range of 250 miles... powering what at what average speed and conditions???
It has a 2 million mile lifetime .... powering what and in what conditions
Absolute fluff piece...

Even once something commercially viable is made I’d derate whatever the manufacturer claims by at least 25%. Seen heaps in trucking industry where manufacturer claims a lot on paper about performance and service intervals but it’s not until you have real world commercial use that you see how something actually performs.
Iv’e no doubt stuff with decent range will come out soon but how long it lasts is another story..,

Stop it!! You are going to confuse the poor woman.

Just saying...