The journey that COVID-19 will take us on

[TheDemonLord]

Its ok. It's legal now.
I'm sure he thinks the same ...

Either way, your point?

The argument I'm making has as much to do with someones sexuality as a bicycle has to do with a Duck.

One your last post's said it was just illegal. Now it's immoral. What changed.. ??

How they decided to end it is irrelevant. That didn't start the Anti-slavery movement in the first place. It would be the worst example of Mans inhumanity to man ... which is why The majority of the public opinion said it had to end. And so it did.

Actually, how they decided to end it is entirely relevant. And no, it wasn't decided by Majority Public Opinion, quite the opposite in fact - it was decided on a point of principle:

That individuals had inherent rights and freedoms, not granted by the government but that were innate to them as Individuals and that it was a moral wrong for the Government to infringe upon them.

It's the same argument that was made to end Segregation and it's the same argument I, and others who subscribe to British Liberalism, point to when it comes to Vaccine Passports

Those against the Covid Pass system are very much the minority. A subtle difference between the two arguments.

Well, according to you, it's everyone in your home town, so that would paint a slightly different picture. I'd suggest it's more likely there are ~10% opposed to it absolutely (like myself), ~10% who are entirely on board with it and ~80% who think it's wrong but go along with it anyway because they don't want to be imposed upon.

Life will be better for you ... if you were a skinny useless Islamophobic prick.

Well, I'm working on the Skinny part, the others I'm sadly not able to. And don't worry, I'm working on the post to address the Islamophobic comments - but please keep them coming, they are ammunition...

The anti-vaccine crowd say exactly the opposite. How come ... ??

I dunno, you'd have to ask them. I'd hazard a guess that the bulk of their arguments would come down to something like 'Massive financial benefit provides massive incentives to cut corners' - but that's not a theory I subscribe to. I'm more than happy to dig up the vaccination thread and point to where I defend against this argument, at length.

I'm also fairly certain that in that thread I stood by my conviction that I believed that State Mandated Vaccinations would be wrong.

Read my post ... I said I CAN produce a valid identity document (my drivers license) if required ... to confirm the person named on my covid pass (which is NOT a valid identity document) is really me. I have not yet been required to produce it for that reason. Nor have I said I have been asked to produce it.

Can =/= Must.

One is currently the Law, but again - good on your local businesses for ignoring it

"The Yellow Star" was a symbol as a group identity. Not necessarily of their ancestry ... just their beliefs. A Gang patch isn't much different actually ...

Just like someone who is not vaccinated on non-medical grounds is a symbol of their beliefs (rightly or wrongly), and they are being discriminated against, by the Government.

And interesting you raise Gang Patches, I can see the point you're making, however 2 issues:

1: It isn't being done at the behest of the Government
2: It doesn't discriminate Gang Members from entering, only if they are flying colours.

You do it all the time. Why shouldn't I ... ??

Your argument is that the elderly want to live forever so we absolutely must protect them at all costs.
My argument is to point to some of the Elderly who say that they are opposed to the restrictions of everyones rights and freedoms, on their (supposed) behalf.

When you're old/fat/gay/Islamophobic/useless ... inside might be safer.

And if I decide that inside is safer for me, then inside is where I will stay.
But it is not up to some faceless busy-body civil servant to decide that I need to be protected and need to stay inside.

I thought you were coming to the point ... but no.

You were wrong on both cases. I did point out where you were wrong. So ... still waiting for the point.

And I don't do your links.

The point is starring you in the face, by your own admission, yet you refuse to acknowledge it:

Discrimination, based on personal belief, is wrong.

That is why so many businesses are either ignoring, not enforcing or are working around the rules, it's why you've not been asked - because the owners of those businesses know it's wrong.

Do not believe you are totally protected. There are no guarantees in that regard.

Are you feeling lucky .. ??

Yes. Very. And sure, there's no Guarantees - but I've taken the number of precautions (for me) that I think are reasonable.

Only a week .. I can live (excuse the pun) with that. I have over 60 days sick leave owing ...

There you go, no harm, no foul.

Good question ... seeing as they are allowed to roam free. If people that are vaccinated can spread the virus to those un-vaccinated ... I can see a few issues coming up though ...

The only real issue I see is that if people who are vaccinated, pass the disease onto people who cannot get vaccinated for various reasons.

Yep. A fair trial .. then jail them. DONE.

As above ...

I mean, I'd be interested to see what happened if it went to trial, but my money would be on a lawyer ripping to shreds the fundamental assumptions made in Contact Tracing, not to mention a Competent Lawyer claiming:

"How do you know that it was my client that passed the disease direct to your client? There were other people in the shop who could also be asymptomatic carriers - do you have negative test results for all of them?"

I don't read his posts. He is NOT on ignore. I just choose not to read them ... just keep on scrolling ...

To just think you could be infected ... gets you jail time if you actually infect somebody with aids..

And that's as it should be, if you know you have a disease and deliberately infect someone else with it then sure. It's that knowing part that is required.

In Cafe's ... masks are not worn while eating or drinking. In robberies ... they usually are.

Note the subtle difference .. ??

I'm waiting for someone to abuse the new mask rules and commit a series of crimes, hell it may already been happening but not being reported on...

The last innings hasn't started yet. Until the last ball has been bowled ... and then we'll see who the winners are.

I mean, sure - if the next variant is small pox levels of deadly, you might have a point, but the Fatality rate has gone from about 4% (when it was first discovered) down to less than 1%.

Even if you account for the Vaccine, in the initial stages it moved from 4% down to 2% - which is what we would expect for a Virus that primarily affects just the elderly.

I did say the next strain. Hopefully the last strain. Not the latest strain. Please try to keep up.

And no doubt, before Omicrom was discovered, you'd have said the same thing. But don't worry guys, I'm sure the next one will be super-duper deadly....

You are entitled to your opinion. Regardless of how illogical and unbalanced your statements have been to date.

My statements have been made from a consistent logical viewpoint, with it's roots in Individual liberty. As above, I'm happy to direct you to the Vaccination thread from years ago and you can see how consistent this position of mine has been.

[TheDemonLord]

You seem to have missed the point completely, but since you ask.

In round 1 they went for herd immunity, the government would not shut down air travel to the UK. Later when a new variant emerged in India, Boris kept flights from India going for about five weeks because he wanted trade talks with Modi.

Johnson has consistently fucked the response every time. When it became evident, even to him, that the virus was out of Control they locked down. Well, normal people did, government cronies partied and toured the country. Virus? What virus?

And you'll note how badly the Government hypocrisy has been received by the English Public, it may even result in Boris stepping down.

A lot of Britons weren't too happy with the Lockdown (again, believing them to be illiberal and against British principles) - My contention is that the 'success' in NZ that is laid at the feet of Government intervention has some very rocky foundations, especially when other areas tried similar approaches, but didn't get the same results.

[TheDemonLord]

The anti vaxxers, fearful in their belief that the vaccine is dangerous and who paid a guy to take their shots for them are going to look even more stupid when someone who has had ten times the recommended dose in one day doesn't suffer any of the effects that they were so scared of. Sort of blows that argument away

That's pretty hilarious actually!

I didn't realise that it was Anti-Vaxxers that had organised it.

[TheDemonLord]

commie bastards and Muslims and feminists making him a low decile incel.

I mean, having kids and being married automatically makes me not an Incel - but, keep trying.

[pritch]

I didn't realise that it was Anti-Vaxxers that had organised it.

Actually it's a fairly safe to infer that the people who paid him to have "their" vaccine were anti vax. Strange as that behaviour is, it would be off the chart weird if they were pro vaccine.

[husaberg]

oh noos for Boris
when you fuck up the EU exit an fuck up covid as bad as trump



https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ry-much-weight

https://www.theweek.co.uk/news/uk-ne...-boris-johnson

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1966743.html

[FJRider]

... The argument I'm making has as much to do with someones sexuality as a bicycle has to do with a Duck.

I know. I just like wasting your time. I have nothing better to do where I am at the moment. Not much on TV. I might as well argue with you. I have the next three weeks off .. so I might not be on her much. That will let you have some quiet time with your boyfriend.

That individuals had inherent rights and freedoms, not granted by the government but that were innate to them as Individuals and that it was a moral wrong for the Government to infringe upon them.

What about the one's your god gave you .. ??

It's the same argument that was made to end Segregation and it's the same argument I, and others who subscribe to British Liberalism, point to when it comes to Vaccine Passports

The word Segregation has a bad connotation ... and rightfully so. The practice of restricting a person's rights and privileges in society, based on skin colour, faith or ethnicity, has become unacceptable in our Western culture, even though it's still practiced in some isolated areas. But segregation for health reasons ... cannot be compared with segregation for reason of faith or Race and ethnicity.

Well, according to you, it's everyone in your home town, so that would paint a slightly different picture. I'd suggest it's more likely there are ~10% opposed to it absolutely (like myself), ~10% who are entirely on board with it and ~80% who think it's wrong but go along with it anyway because they don't want to be imposed upon.

I live in Dunedin. about 19% would be unvaccinated. I have more respect for that 10% sticking to their guns and not getting the vaccine ... than those mouthing off on how wrong it all is ... and got the jabs anyway. As I've already said ... it is NOT illegal to NOT get the jabs.
likely there are different

Well, I'm working on the Skinny part, the others I'm sadly not able to. And don't worry, I'm working on the post to address the Islamophobic comments - but please keep them coming, they are ammunition...

Good luck with all that. Let us know when you slim down to an XXL ... I'll buy you a cream cake.

I dunno, you'd have to ask them.

More likely you and they have different agendas ... the vaccinated have a sort of foot in both camps ... but like to be seen as having principals. The un-vaccinated however ... usually have personal reasons. The reasons are usually actually irrelevant. Usually based on ignorance or stupidity. The un-vaxinated are allowed in Supermarkets ... the superspreader location of modern times. Thus ... I like to go to places where there is less risk of contracting the virus.

I'm also fairly certain that in that thread I stood by my conviction that I believed that State Mandated Vaccinations would be wrong.

Stand up more often ... it's good exercise.

Can =/= Must.

One is currently the Law, but again - good on your local businesses for ignoring it

They (as you do) have their own agendas. Not necessarily the legal one ... the trick to achieve is not getting caught out.

Just like someone who is not vaccinated on non-medical grounds is a symbol of their beliefs (rightly or wrongly), and they are being discriminated against, by the Government.

THEY don't have to wear a yellow star (or any OTHER such symbol)

And interesting you raise Gang Patches, I can see the point you're making, however 2 issues:

1: It isn't being done at the behest of the Government
2: It doesn't discriminate Gang Members from entering, only if they are flying colours.

I didn't say SAME THING ... I said ... Not much different.

1. Gang Patches are banned in MOST Government agencies.

2. And Gang Patches are banned from MANY/MOST drinking/eating businesses ... and most public places ... and establishments.

Your argument is that the elderly want to live forever so we absolutely must protect them at all costs.
My argument is to point to some of the Elderly who say that they are opposed to the restrictions of everyones rights and freedoms, on their (supposed) behalf.

Only a few want to die. Those living want to enjoy their life. Those nearing their life's end want to make the most of the time they have left ... a few things on their bucket list still to tick off. As such ... restrictions on their movement ... even if it's for their own good ... are not appreciated (Understatement).

And if I decide that inside is safer for me, then inside is where I will stay.
But it is not up to some faceless busy-body civil servant to decide that I need to be protected and need to stay inside.

If you're vaccinated ... YOU don't need to stay inside ... REMEMBER .. ??

The point is starring you in the face, by your own admission, yet you refuse to acknowledge it:

Discrimination, based on personal belief, is wrong.

I mentioned my view on discrimination earlier. See a few paragraphs up.

That is why so many businesses are either ignoring, not enforcing or are working around the rules, it's why you've not been asked - because the owners of those businesses know it's wrong.

I've been asked many times now ... only a few did not. I probably wont go back to those places. That's MY choice ... not theirs.

Yes. Very. And sure, there's no Guarantees - but I've taken the number of precautions (for me) that I think are reasonable.

Good for you.

There you go, no harm, no foul.

Depends on the variant involved.

The only real issue I see is that if people who are vaccinated, pass the disease onto people who cannot get vaccinated for various reasons.

If YOU were one of those people ... what actions would you take .. ?? continue to take your rights to freedom and roam freely ... or stay safe. At HOME .. ??

I mean, I'd be interested to see what happened if it went to trial, but my money would be on a lawyer ripping to shreds the fundamental assumptions made in Contact Tracing ?"

We have discussed this before. To date nobody has been charged with passing on the virus. It may be up for discussions when that happens.

I'm waiting for someone to abuse the new mask rules and commit a series of crimes, hell it may already been happening but not being reported on...

Unlikely.

My statements have been made from a consistent logical viewpoint, with it's roots in Individual liberty. As above, I'm happy to direct you to the Vaccination thread from years ago and you can see how consistent this position of mine has been.

BULLSHIT. Just based on your own self-centered indulgence and ignorance.

[R650R]

The anti vaxxers, fearful in their belief that the vaccine is dangerous and who paid a guy to take their shots for them are going to look even more stupid when someone who has had ten times the recommended dose in one day doesn't suffer any of the effects that they were so scared of. Sort of blows that argument away

I do love how the experts say it might not work properly because he had too much 😂

[husaberg]

I do love how the experts say it might not work properly because he had too much ��

I love how you comment on experts opinions when you have no educational, practical experience or qualifications on medicine or science

[TheDemonLord]

Actually it's a fairly safe to infer that the people who paid him to have "their" vaccine were anti vax. Strange as that behaviour is, it would be off the chart weird if they were pro vaccine.

I've only skim read the headline to be fair on this - my initial impression was that someone did it as a stunt to prove it was safe - but eitherway, the Irony is hilarious.

[TheDemonLord]

oh noos for Boris
when you fuck up the EU exit an fuck up covid as bad as trump

This is nothing to do with Brexit.

The problem for Boris is 2-fold:

1: Weak response to the Migrant Crisis. Many Britons would be perfectly happy with the Royal Navy blockading the channel and firing a warning shot across the bow of any dingy, boat or other vessel trying to gain access illegally to the UK. Priti Patel has been trying (and her points based immigration system was well received in Conservative Circles) but the simple fact is that Boris is not upholding the Law

2: Double Standards on Covid. Perhaps the best example is to compare Her Majesty, the Queen - with BoJo. When Prince Phillip Died, The Queen could have rightly said at the funeral 'Sod the Rules, I want to be with my Family' - No one would have blamed her - but she decided to play by the same rules as everyone else (whether or not she agrees with them, I don't know) so as to set the example.

Bojo on the other hand, has been caught out multiple times ignoring the rules of taking advantage of special exemptions for Government in ways that the British consider inappropriate. And if there is one thing that will piss off the British Public more than anything, it's double standards by our Leaders. Common Law means one rule for everyone.


I'm hoping that Priti Patel ousts him as Leader, or Kemi Badendock, or Jacob Rhees-Mogg (although the latter has been a bit weak on English Principles since joining the front Bench).

I'd kinda like it to be Kemi - just as the ultimate 'Fuck you' to the Diversity crowd.

[TheDemonLord]

I know. I just like wasting your time. I have nothing better to do where I am at the moment. Not much on TV. I might as well argue with you. I have the next three weeks off .. so I might not be on her much. That will let you have some quiet time with your boyfriend.

Is it wasting my time if I engage in it? I've said multiple times I like to argue - if you are willing to participate, then jolly good.

What about the one's your god gave you .. ??

Knock yourself out
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natura...d_legal_rights

It's a good explanation of firstly Locke's conception of 'God Given Rights', which was initially made from a Protestant Christian viewpoint, but later it was realised that the same arguments could be made without the appeal to a God, but to an appeal of the individual - and those God Given rights become Natural Rights.

The word Segregation has a bad connotation ... and rightfully so. The practice of restricting a person's rights and privileges in society, based on skin colour, faith or ethnicity, has become unacceptable in our Western culture, even though it's still practiced in some isolated areas.

Based on Faith, you say?

What is it that you think Anti-Vaxxers have? They are just as fervent and Zealous in their conviction as any Born-again Christian...

But segregation for health reasons ... cannot be compared with segregation for reason of faith or Race and ethnicity.

It absolutely can. As a Hypothetical, if the State were to take away all the people with say Down Syndrome and lock them up in a care facility 'for their own protection and their health' - we would absolutely condemn that as wrong.

The bit that you are omitting is that there needs to be an initial act. We don't preemptively lock people up. We can certainly segregate an individual or a small group of individuals who have a deadly disease, but up until this point we have never segregated people from society just because they might have a disease.

I live in Dunedin. about 19% would be unvaccinated. I have more respect for that 10% sticking to their guns and not getting the vaccine ... than those mouthing off on how wrong it all is ... and got the jabs anyway. As I've already said ... it is NOT illegal to NOT get the jabs.

I have no issue with the Vaccine. None. My contention has always been with the compulsion, by the Government, to GET the Vaccine - such as Passports, job loss etc.

Two different concepts.

Good luck with all that. Let us know when you slim down to an XXL ... I'll buy you a cream cake.

Last pair of jeans I bought (this year) were a Large... And I prefer Choccy Cake.

More likely you and they have different agendas ... the vaccinated have a sort of foot in both camps ... but like to be seen as having principals. The un-vaccinated however ... usually have personal reasons. The reasons are usually actually irrelevant. Usually based on ignorance or stupidity. The un-vaxinated are allowed in Supermarkets ... the superspreader location of modern times. Thus ... I like to go to places where there is less risk of contracting the virus.

And that's absolutely fine - the bit we both agree on is that Governments trying to compel people, using force and discrimination, to undergo a medical procedure that they don't want to, is wrong.

I doubt we agree on much passed that...

Stand up more often ... it's good exercise.

I prefer to Swim.

They (as you do) have their own agendas. Not necessarily the legal one ... the trick to achieve is not getting caught out.

Or to effect Change...

THEY don't have to wear a yellow star (or any OTHER such symbol)

Not yet, but we've got identity papers (the Vaccine Passport), which puts us about at 1938 Germany...

I didn't say SAME THING ... I said ... Not much different.

1. Gang Patches are banned in MOST Government agencies.

2. And Gang Patches are banned from MANY/MOST drinking/eating businesses ... and most public places ... and establishments.

Sure, but one can take off their Gang Colours and entire the premises...

It's not the Gang MEMBER that is prohibited, it's the Gang Colours.

Only a few want to die. Those living want to enjoy their life. Those nearing their life's end want to make the most of the time they have left ... a few things on their bucket list still to tick off. As such ... restrictions on their movement ... even if it's for their own good ... are not appreciated (Understatement).

And there we have it - the people we are supposedly helping, don't want our Help, they want Freedom, just like me.

If you're vaccinated ... YOU don't need to stay inside ... REMEMBER .. ??

But the point remains, if I change my opinion, I have the ability to stay inside.

I've been asked many times now ... only a few did not. I probably wont go back to those places. That's MY choice ... not theirs.

Likewise, the Businesses that comply with Tyranny loose my business.

If YOU were one of those people ... what actions would you take .. ?? continue to take your rights to freedom and roam freely ... or stay safe. At HOME .. ??

I can't fully answer that, but my answer would be: What do they do during Flu Season? That would be the answer - they have choices to make about their own safety.

We have discussed this before. To date nobody has been charged with passing on the virus. It may be up for discussions when that happens.

Not Covid, not yet - but there is precedent that people who know they have a deadly Virus (such as HIV) and knowingly fail to take steps to prevent passing on the disease.

So I could see that if someone knows they have Covid and went out and spread it - sure, prosecute them. But if you don't know you have it - good luck...

BULLSHIT. Just based on your own self-centered indulgence and ignorance.

Interesting comment - because by your own admission, there's people whose posts you don't read because you don't care for and by your own admission, you are wasting time - If it was just 'self-centered indulgence and ignorance', then I very much doubt you'd engage.

You know that I've long stood on principles for all, I've publicly and privately defended people I disagree with, when I felt they were getting undue attention from the Mods - and you know that in this regard I've long been very consistent - which is Freedom and Liberty.

[TheDemonLord]

Something I was reminded of whilst reading this thread:



Specifically the first part, the idea of 'proving who you are' to freely access things is against British Ideals

[husaberg]

Don't tell me, the commies and the feminists along with the islamics are conspiring to make him an Incell.
Constantly making up stories, of how boris and trump are not the true hero's of Covid
Everyone knows its true the Nazis were left wing
TLDR knows more about covid than doctors, more about the law than Judges and more about National security than the FBI
the commies are trying to disarm him as he is onto their tricks , its his god given right to have firearms he doesn't need to protect him against commies an anyone he doesn't like
This will follow a whole heap of rebuttals to points you never made, misdirections to avoid points you did make, that he tries to twist all the while a constant refusal to admit hes is clearly wrong when faced with overwhelming evidence.
Pretty close?

[TheDemonLord]

Don't tell me the commies and the feminists along with the islamics are conspiring to make him an Incell.
Constantly making up stories of how boris an trump are the true hero's of Covid
Nazis were left wing
He knows more about covid than doctors more about the law than Judges and more about National security then the FBI
the commies are trying to disarm him as he is onto their tricks ad its his god given right to have firearms he doesn't need to protect him against commies an anyone he doesn't llke
followed by a whole heap of rebuttals to points you never made misdirections to to points you did made that he tries to twist all the while a nstant refusial to admit hes is clearly wrong when faced with overwhelming evidence.
Pretty close?

You alright? You seem to be having some form of Forum Aneurysm.