Stupid World

[TheDemonLord]

TDL - Before I comment further, I'm going to need to have a look at this book in it's entirety. One page is not enough to form a complete view. Please supply a link to the place where you read it. Cheers.

I have not read it in it's entirety - however, there are more than enough panels from the book available in a Google Search to give you an overall feel.

https://www.google.com/search?q=gend...h=739&dpr=1.25

If you feel I'm jumping to conclusions - I will retort that I've got more than a casual understanding of the underlying Gender Theory ideology that drives the creation of books like this, which you will no-doubt dismiss.

That said, even if I'm being as charitable as I possibly can be, I do not think there is any context or complete view that could justify that being in a School Library, paid for by the state.

And just to give the threshold I'm using here - I cannot remember seeing any books in my School Library that visually depicted sex acts. I can remember books on Serial Killers that had illustrations of aspects of a crime - such as a picture of John Haigh standing ominously next to a Barrel, with a Gas Mask on - alluding to what happened, but not showing the actual act.

The crossing of the line between hinting about a graphic act and depicting a graphic act is what I think is most at issue here.

You could have the commentary of the Fantasy (perhaps tone down the language a bit - since it's audience are still Teenagers) and then an illustration of a couple enjoying post-sex bliss. You'd likely still get the hardline christian conservative backlash, but you wouldn't get the reaction from people like yourself.

I was a bit startled at the attachment TDL posted but didn't comment because it lacked context. The same book though was the subject of discussion in the latest 'Real Time' podcast. It seems it actually is a thing.

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooah!

That's quite the admission Pritch!

Just give me a moment to get up off the floor.

Okay - both you and Sugi - who generally disagree with me when it comes to things like Woke etc. have both admitted that the image I posted was objectionable - I'm going to ask this:

You started this discussion mocking the Conservatives for you thought was the absurd. In no small part because of the way that the story was portrayed in the Media that you trust (A Media who shares the same ideological viewpoint as the books author).

Now you have seen what is being objected to - is it possible that maybe the Conservatives have a point? And the even larger point, if you are feeling brave, that maybe the people who presented this story to you in such a way to make it seem absurd and for you to dismiss the story as crazy Conservatives were doing so for nefarious reasons.

As an additional point - you didn't believe it was true, I not only knew which book was being referred to, but even knew the specific page that was being objected to. Will you also concede that maybe on these issues, I have a little bit more context and knowledge on this issue?

The list of banned books in one southern shit hole state is nearing 200. The list includes many classics including Huckleberry Finn and To Kill A Mockingbird.
It's safe to assume TDL's book made the list too.

Methinks you have your lists confused Pritch.

To Kill a Mockingbird and Huck Finn are banned in California, for using period-correct Racial Slurs. If the list you are referring to is the one I think it is (and given the two examples, I believe it is) - then it is a Fake List - as Florida has not banned those books.

DeSantis' Press Secretary even tweeted that Florida recommends Grade 8 (13-14 yo) read the book.

[sugilite:Me]

OK, found a free version of it to read. Problem is, it is a 99 page comic book, realistically, I won't have time to look at all that until Monday with my schedule (Yes TDL I'm not posting much because I'm freaking so busy, not because I'm wrought in angst that your posts might be right - well, you are certainly right in posting some people have the weirdest fantasies ). Initial thoughts are after reading wikipedia page is, there is supposedly only a small handful; of explicit pictures, they could of made a school addition with sanitized ones at the very least. Will report back once I been through it.

[TheDemonLord]

not because I'm wrought in angst that your posts might be right

To be honest - the fact we've come from the initial comment of indignation and mockery to the point where both you and Pritch have acknowledged that there is something that you both feel is wrong with the image(s) that you saw, such that there is a legitimate conversation to be had as to whether it's acceptable - I've pretty much won.

I mean, sure I'm me and I'd like to go for the overwhelming victory of the Media lying about it and this being part of a number of Marxist disciplines that seek to undermine civilization....

But y'know - I'll keep this one in the back pocket.

well, you are certainly right in posting some people have the weirdest fantasies

All I'm going to say is that the one I picked has a rate between 30-50% and is considered pretty edge - makes you think about what 25 or even 10% of the population might be aroused by.

To quote Blade Runner

"I've.... Seen things..."

Initial thoughts are after reading wikipedia page is, there is supposedly only a small handful; of explicit pictures, they could of made a school addition with sanitized ones at the very least.

A reasonably sound suggestion and one with plenty of good will.

I'm not sure I would extend such good will.

I have my reasons - some of which I've already outlined here and elsewhere (knowledge of the ideology that drives this, incompatibility between Gender Theory and Biology, massive surges in children, particularly autistic girls of self-reporting etc.) - but others include the circling of the Wagons by the Media types to try and portray that opposition to what I posted (which I think is the overwhelming majority opinion) is somehow 'wrong' to the point as to be mocked and treated with disdain.

[sugilite:Me]

To be honest - the fact we've come from the initial comment of indignation and mockery to the point where both you and Pritch have acknowledged that there is something that you both feel is wrong with the image(s) that you saw, such that there is a legitimate conversation to be had as to whether it's acceptable - I've pretty much won.

Really. Please do show where either Pritch or I made any sort of comments containing indignation or mockery in regards to your posting of the image from the book?
Both of us were honest in our appraisal of said image.
You on the other hand - felt the need to put words in our mouths to take some sort of "win" and claim credit based totally on a lie. No wonder you admire the orange buffoon so much, you see him every time you look in the mirror.
If you were aiming to look like an abject lying wanker - then yes, you "won". Congratulations.
Now, rather than writing a wall of text trying to link your words to something we said in an unrelated thread, why don't you try something refreshing, and actually type something honest and earn some actual credit. Just a thought.

[TheDemonLord]

Really. Please do show where either Pritch or I made any sort of comments containing indignation or mockery in regards to your posting of the image from the book?
Both of us were honest in our appraisal of said image.
You on the other hand - felt the need to put words in our mouths to take some sort of "win" and claim credit based totally on a lie. No wonder you admire the orange buffoon so much, you see him every time you look in the mirror.
If you were aiming to look like an abject lying wanker - then yes, you "won". Congratulations.
Now, rather than writing a wall of text trying to link your words to something we said in an unrelated thread, why don't you try something refreshing, and actually type something honest and earn some actual credit. Just a thought.

Bro...

You misinterpreted what I said, quite significantly.

This started because of this post:

An aspiring US politician has announced that if he is elected he will ban pole dancing, porn, and CRT - in primary schools. US primary schools sound much more exciting than the one I went to in NZ. Either that or he's a gullible twat.

That is the "initial comment of indignation and mockery" to which I spoke of.

Not your or Pritch's subsequent reaction to the actual image that sparked this.

Now that I've clarified which comment that pertains to (and what it definitely does not pertain to) - Do you still stand by that post?

[sugilite:Me]

So why involve me and claim the "win" so nope. You chose my quote to comment and speak to me directly and go on and claim your "victory" lap. So I do still stand by what I wrote. I have told you time and again not to put words in my mouth. if i did not say it, leave me out of it. Pretty simple.

[TheDemonLord]

So why involve me and claim the "win" so nope. You chose my quote to comment and speak to me directly and go on and claim your "victory" lap. So I do still stand by what I wrote. I have told you time and again not to put words in my mouth. if i did not say it, leave me out of it. Pretty simple.

Correct, I did.

Because whether you saying that I'm right or not isn't what I consider to be winning here.

As I jokingly said, I'd prefer a full victory - but the actual win here is both your and Pritch's reaction to the image I posted.

I could have posted reams and reams of text outlining various aspects of that book, the philosophy that drives it etc. etc. and assuming you had the time, will and inclination - we could have had a delightful back-and-forth - yet, none of that would have had the visceral impact of seeing the image in question..

When I said a picture was worth a Thousand Words, I really meant it and knew what your reaction would be.

Regardless of what the conclusion at the end of the discussion you hold is - whether you think the Book should be in schools, shouldn't be in schools, should be redacted in schools etc. etc.

By your reactions (and yes, I'm combining your reactions, because they are pretty similar - if you think this is putting words in your mouth, then I'll correct) - I've 'proved' that there is a serious issue, that deserves serious discussion.

Hence my comment - I've moved it from Pritch's initial post of Mockery and Indignation to one where 'regular' folks such as yourself and Pritch (who aren't as versed in the whole culture war/Anti-Wokeness stuff as people like myself) have gone 'Shit - they have a point'.

You don't have to agree with anything past that, you don't even have to reach a conclusion that it's wrong per se - just agreeing that there's a legitimacy to the question being asked is sufficient.

Now, I don't know in particular if you agreed or disagreed with Pritch's initial post - so you might say that without knowing your initial view it's bad form to claim victory - but above I wasn't seeking to prove the argument correct one way or another - only seeking to prove it's legitimacy to be had in the first place - and your shock confirms that.

[sugilite:Me]

As usual, a wall of bullshit. Please do show me the post where you perceive I'm in shock?

[TheDemonLord]

As usual, a wall of bullshit. Please do show me the post where you perceive I'm in shock?

Sure:

While i do not necessarily approve of your example piece

And then subsequent comments - such as the suggestion about having an edited version for school use.

Shock/Disapproval/Startled

whichever adjective you want to use, it's fine - the manner of your engagement in the discussion shows that the concern being raised has legitimacy.

Look - let me throw you a line here so we can get back on track - let's assume you read the whole comic and come to the conclusion that it's acceptable for schools and you find some quote from me espousing a Free Speech absolutist opinion, quote it at me and say gotcha.

The latter part is well within the realms of possibility, the former - I suspect you will side with your earlier opinion that the Explicit parts are a step too far for school.

I've still shown that there's a legitimate issue here and not the absurd/hyperbolic portrayal of the issue as per Pritch's initial post.

[sugilite:Me]

Shock, disapproval, startled? None of the above. A mild hmmmm would be accurate.
The reason I'm reading it is because I actually have a fair bit of skin in the game due to people close to me being directly affected by this stuff. I may share later - or not. Me reading it has absolutely nothing to do with proving you wrong.

[husaberg]

As usual, a wall of bullshit. Please do show me the post where you perceive I'm in shock?

in the words of the immortal Jim Lahey
He posted a Shitwall of Shit as if scattered with Shit Machine Gun
Shitweeds grew from Shit seeds
It started as shit larvae and then the grew into shitapillars. A whole pandemic of shitapillars
In essence its a Shitstorm pushed by a Shitwinds heading to the Shitabyss.

[TheDemonLord]

Shock, disapproval, startled? None of the above. A mild hmmmm would be accurate.

Okay - Fair - For you a Mild Hmmmm.

Even a Mild Hmmmm means that the issue at hand isn't ridiculous in the way that it was initially (By Pritch) portrayed.

The reason I'm reading it is because I actually have a fair bit of skin in the game due to people close to me being directly affected by this stuff. I may share later - or not. Me reading it has absolutely nothing to do with proving you wrong.

I would recommend (For balance, if nothing else) the works of:

- The end of Gender by Debra Soh
- Self-Made Man by Norma Vincent
- Irreversible Damage by Abigail Shrier
- Cynical Theories by Helen Pluckrose and James Lindsey

The first talks about the Nature vs Nurture aspects of Sex and Gender and the Human Universality of certain things.
Self-Made Man was a Lesbian who spent 18 months as a Man, sadly she got severe depression from the experience and never really recovered, she committed Suicide (assisted) in Switzerland earlier this year.
Irreversible Damage is about the various harms being done, in particular, Autistic Girls who get on the Trans Train and are positively reinforced at every step, to the point where they are on Hormones and having surgeries that have permanent implications.
Cynical Theories looks at the Academic literature that drives this.

Whoever the people close to you are and whatever the manner in which they are affected - I hope they get the help the need (which may not be the help they want).

[Dean]

Drama

[pritch]

Apropos of TDL's comic - sort of. I worked with a woman who was somewhat proud of her ancestry. More recently she posted a pic on social media of her having lunch with her nephew who had a name strongly indicative of that ancestry. I replied commenting on the name. She replied that it was a very good name of its type, but that her nephew had been Christened Shirley. I didn't see that coming. Then again, as she said, neither did anybody else.

Families have to deal with variations from the 'norm', presumably having relevant literature available would assist. Lacking a degree in educational psychology or similar, I can't comment on the suitability, or otherwise, of any of that material. However startling it may at first appear.

[TheDemonLord]

Lacking a degree in educational psychology or similar, I can't comment on the suitability, or otherwise, of any of that material. However startling it may at first appear.

Do you need a Biology degree to know a Cat is a Cat?
Or a Degree in Criminology to know when a Crime has been committed?

You are (I believe) a parent, that gives you suitability to have an opinion on what material a child sees.