Ten years tick tock the bell tolls for NZ petrol power

[R650R]

Well done Nakirat it seems you are in a fortunate position to make it work for you.
However a large portion of our country doesn’t earn a lot of money and can’t afford to instal solar and home charging setups.
It’s going to be very interesting for the working classes as the carbon zero deadline closes in...

I earn enough that I care not for the running costs of my wagon, my time is more important to me. I refuel my car about once a month that only costs me about 6 mins of my time and several hours wages.

I do like the emerging technology where you’re car can be a powerbank for house if needed, however the samectechnology will allow the state to take back your stored energy to spread load in peak times. I doubt they will compensate owners for the wear and tear (charge cycles) on limited life batteries or pay full amount of original power given there is a loss in system during transmission and charging heat when you stored that energy.

[Naki Rat]

Well done Nakirat it seems you are in a fortunate position to make it work for you.
However a large portion of our country doesnÂ’t earn a lot of money and canÂ’t afford to instal solar and home charging setups.
ItÂ’s going to be very interesting for the working classes as the carbon zero deadline closes in...

I earn enough that I care not for the running costs of my wagon, my time is more important to me. I refuel my car about once a month that only costs me about 6 mins of my time and several hours wages.

I do like the emerging technology where youÂ’re car can be a powerbank for house if needed, however the samectechnology will allow the state to take back your stored energy to spread load in peak times. I doubt they will compensate owners for the wear and tear (charge cycles) on limited life batteries or pay full amount of original power given there is a loss in system during transmission and charging heat when you stored that energy.

You do realise that an EV can be charged from any household socket? It just takes a while using a 2kW outlet to charge a 60+kWh battery. Our EV charger cost us about $1,000 10 years back and provides an overnight fill from near empty using a 7kW output. Reality is that our charging effort is no more time consuming than plugging in any battery powered device (takes 5 seconds) and is scheduled from 11:00pm to use off peak rates (if we're not charging during daylight using PV with any PV shortfall covered by off peak weekend rates).

Granted the PV is a significant investment but we enjoy power bills of<$150/month which of course includes charging both cars. Like the 'fuel' savings we have enjoyed from the Leaf in the near 10 years that we've owned it we look upon the cost as paying forward on our cost of living and a way of protecting ourselves from the inevitable price increases of travel and home energy costs. We are fortunate enough to be able to invest in our own future and we see such investments as more reliable than financial investments in the current and future international business climate. Developing our own battery back-up is also attractive in terms of resilience especially as we are rural so water is pumped and we have 2x 700L chest freezers that are at risk in extended power outages.

So far as battery degradation is concerned emerging battery chemistries are far more resilient than past and current designs, and we are very much of a mind that any battery (including by V2G) system that we go with will be as disconnected from outside control measures as possible. The ultimate in this regard is to go totally off-grid but this presents too many restrictions (or added expence) to be a viable option.

[nerrrd]

You do realise that an EV can be charged from any household socket?

EV's won't be the answer for many people without their own parking, or those of us who live in blocks with separate shared parking areas – I personally can't run household power to my parking space, it would have to be installed by the Body Corporate (they probably would if there was enough demand, but at the moment for our 10 units, no one has an EV, same for the other building alongside with 12 units, so not happening anytime soon).

Swappable battery tech might work for me, if that ever comes along. And is cheap.

[R650R]

More anti-car/bike stuff under the guise of “safety”

https://i.stuff.co.nz/motoring/30094...g-peak-commute

Hidden in a photo caption near end is that within next 30 years Raul crossings that aren’t delegated by an under or over pass will be closed to traffic!!!
Rail is set to become its own Berlin Wall of Auckland dividing communities….

I suspect with more rail services we’ll get the UK style control where the barrier arms stay down if there’s another train coming in few minutes incase someone blocks the crossing.

[pete376403]

Well done Nakirat it seems you are in a fortunate position to make it work for you.
However a large portion of our country doesn’t earn a lot of money and can’t afford to instal solar and home charging setups..

You d know that there is a company offering free supply and installation of solar panels, controller and battery in exchange for a long term commitment?
I have a 12 panel system with Panasonic 6.5 KwH battery.The system is leased from SolarZero for a fixed charge over the term of the contract. Ecotricity are the grid connection and they buy my surplus energy as the same price as the supply it to me, Admittedly with the shit weather of late I havent been selling much but summer time regularly sees me with a credit each month, even after the line charges that Wellington Electricity apply

[pritch]

However a large portion of our country doesn’t earn a lot of money and can’t afford to instal solar and home charging setups.

True, and the initial expense requires a number of years to become economically viable, for people beyond a certain age the sums just don't work. For some time now I've thought all new builds should have a stipulated minimum number of solar panels so as to assist with the increased demand caused by heat pumps and EVs.

A slightly different tack, on the hilly areas of Wellington, of which there are more than a few, many houses don't have off street parking. Imagine the veritable spider's web of extension cords dangling across footpaths. Creative people will be finding a variety of ways to be hospitalised.

[R650R]

In London they are trying to ban cars by stealth. The new low emission zones basically charge the average person an hours wage every time they move in greater London area.
One chap successfully argued case in court as there is no proper signage informing of the fee/penalty , and no option/space to turn around and exit to alternate route.
Meanwhile other people are risking prison disabling the cameras and “breaking down” by camera vans blocking their view.
This chap filmed a humourus video

[BMWST?]

EV's won't be the answer for many people without their own parking, or those of us who live in blocks with separate shared parking areas – I personally can't run household power to my parking space, it would have to be installed by the Body Corporate (they probably would if there was enough demand, but at the moment for our 10 units, no one has an EV, same for the other building alongside with 12 units, so not happening anytime soon).

Swappable battery tech might work for me, if that ever comes along. And is cheap.

body corp would have to collect those moneys from owners.Is the a car park per unit? Do some units have 2 car parks and othrs none?? The unit oners will end up paying anyway

[R650R]

Finally someone with a bit of influence gets the bigger picture, it’s all about dismantling the ICE infrastructure and car building factories so all that’s left is buses and trains.
It’s clear EVs are never going to be practical for our current western lifestyles. There’s no way that EVs or charging infrastructure even if built could cope with:
The mass exodus at start of school holidays
30,000 people all going to same cricket match or rock concert
That fishing tournament with 3000 ford rangers heading up north this weekend.

We’re at a tipping point now where as manufacturers pull out of building ICE the economy of scale starts making third party supplied parts and production tools excessively expensive. Couple this with losses done have made on bad ev designs that people are not buying and well it doesn’t look good.
An example from recent past is how californias two stroke ban basically shagged the whole world wide market for road going two strokes. And look how fast that snow balled.
Also the covid driven (allegedly) chip shortage for processors. It’s quite scary at a time when Russia and China are positioned for war we are voluntarily dismantling production capability along with power generation also…

[pritch]

In London they are trying to ban cars by stealth.

Yeah. There is a YouTube clip where a woman explains her situation to the mayor on a radio show. She was struggling financially but ULEZ means she can't afford to eat. She certainly can't afford a new car although the mayors magic maths lead him to believe she could.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXviglZWYC4&t=434s

[nerrrd]

body corp would have to collect those moneys from owners.Is the a car park per unit? Do some units have 2 car parks and othrs none?? The unit oners will end up paying anyway

Yes they would, if a majority of owners agreed to do so, but there's no demand currently ().

For us, 7 out of 10 units have allocated parking, the remaining 3 are first come first served (they're on a right of way so can't be 'owned' individually).

It's the type of block that was build back in the day for retirees, I don't think parking was a priority even then (my carport is considerably narrower than normal for instance, plenty of room for a bike though).

[pritch]

Recently I mentioned the Mazda hybrid which uses an 800cc rotary to charge the battery. I can't remember where I posted that but this thread will do now.

Yesterday while cruising YouTube I came across a hybrid fire engine. The wheels are driven by electric motors, the internal combustion engine, in the usual place, is not connected to the drive train. It just charges the batteries. It is not imitating Mazda. The fire engine is in the Southward museum and dates from the 1920s.

[R650R]

Recently I mentioned the Mazda hybrid which uses an 800cc rotary to charge the battery. I can't remember where I posted that but this thread will do now.

Yesterday while cruising YouTube I came across a hybrid fire engine. The wheels are driven by electric motors, the internal combustion engine, in the usual place, is not connected to the drive train. It just charges the batteries. It is not imitating Mazda. The fire engine is in the Southward museum and dates from the 1920s.

Yes there’s a lot of technology already used in past. Even double overhead camshafts were used way back then too. A lot of time though due to economic reasons stuff was not considered.

Combustion driven electro-hydraulics for power are also common in excavators and cranes also, it makes sense for many reasons. That fire engine was prob a good idea when towns were smaller and sustained higher speeds were not needed. However a modern fire engine carries so much gear and might need to suddenly romp out long distance to bushfire or car crash in country that the energy density of a diesel engine is king.

[Naki Rat]

Finally someone with a bit of influence gets the bigger picture, it’s all about dismantling the ICE infrastructure and car building factories so all that’s left is buses and trains.
It’s clear EVs are never going to be practical for our current western lifestyles. There’s no way that EVs or charging infrastructure even if built could cope with:
The mass exodus at start of school holidays
30,000 people all going to same cricket match or rock concert
That fishing tournament with 3000 ford rangers heading up north this weekend.

We’re at a tipping point now where as manufacturers pull out of building ICE the economy of scale starts making third party supplied parts and production tools excessively expensive. Couple this with losses done have made on bad ev designs that people are not buying and well it doesn’t look good.
An example from recent past is how californias two stroke ban basically shagged the whole world wide market for road going two strokes. And look how fast that snow balled.
Also the covid driven (allegedly) chip shortage for processors. It’s quite scary at a time when Russia and China are positioned for war we are voluntarily dismantling production capability along with power generation also…

Geoff certainly has issues with just about everything in his life it would seem. Like a drunk uncle that corners you at the family get together with opinions on all manner of things but lacking facts to back up those opinions. What he is referring to in the early stages of his rant is the effects of disruptive technology which EVs definitely are. The totality of the changes that they will make to our everyday life, and are already making, are far too much for individuals like Geoff and many legacy car manufacturers to comprehend.

Just like Kodak was left high and dry as digital photography made film cameras redundant so too will EVs destroy many of the car manufacturers that have become a mainstay of modern life over the past several decades. ICE vehicles just won't and can't compete with a technology that is able to drive autonomously, serve as a back-up power source for your home and for appliances in remote locations, are able to be charged at home at a fraction of the cost of fuelling an ICEV (particularly for those with home solar) and emit virtually no emissions while being driven.

In the same way that almost nobody would consider buying a film camera, audio or video tape player/recorder, a landline phone, mail envelopes and stamps, a Blackberry or Nokia cellphone or a coal range given a few years the idea of purchasing a fossil fuel burning vehicle will seem nonsensical.

Also in regard to the comment on computer chips check out the relevant chapter in Ed Conway's book Material World. The chapters covering the other materials that we have shaped our world around are also worth reading and while not always painting a rosy picture of our near future the info the book offers is brilliant in helping to understand the interconnectiveness of world politics and material supply chains. Enjoy

[R650R]

Geoff certainly has issues with just about everything in his life it would seem. Like a drunk uncle that corners you at the family get together with opinions on all manner of things but lacking facts to back up those opinions. What he is referring to in the early stages of his rant is the effects of disruptive technology which EVs definitely are. The totality of the changes that they will make to our everyday life, and are already making, are far too much for individuals like Geoff and many legacy car manufacturers to comprehend.

Just like Kodak was left high and dry as digital photography made film cameras redundant so too will EVs destroy many of the car manufacturers that have become a mainstay of modern life over the past several decades. ICE vehicles just won't and can't compete with a technology that is able to drive autonomously, serve as a back-up power source for your home and for appliances in remote locations, are able to be charged at home at a fraction of the cost of fuelling an ICEV (particularly for those with home solar) and emit virtually no emissions while being driven.

In the same way that almost nobody would consider buying a film camera, audio or video tape player/recorder, a landline phone, mail envelopes and stamps, a Blackberry or Nokia cellphone or a coal range given a few years the idea of purchasing a fossil fuel burning vehicle will seem nonsensical.

Actually heÂ’s just a guy who likes the simple reliability of cheap slightly older cars. He found people liked these mini rants and so using it for view count, who wouldnÂ’t go for easy money.He straight out reads quotes from sources in his vids if you watch properly with a little intelligent reading between the lines.
Himself and other sane people well and truely comprehend the change that is coming. ThatÂ’s why we donÂ’t like it. There is not enough minerals to go around for everyone that has a car now to have an EV, we are already past PEAK lithium/cobalt etc. Awhile ago I posted a speech by a geology expert that was employed by top mining/investment companies ie a guy that WANTS to make big $$$$ out of this if he can. He said it is not physically possibly to upscale to the level of mining needed for ev to go mainstreamÂ…

Digital cameras are a technology that rapidly progressed to be substantially cheaper and easier than film and also offer certain creative advantages. EVÂ’s have not progressed technology wise in any significant factor. Despite mega bucks being thrown at battery research all we are getting is vapourware promises so far.
There is no real reliable autonomous vehicle operation happening. There are some limited applications of it but it is nowhere near a safe mainstream technology yet.
ICE vehicles are cheaper to run long term. On paper they look cheap if your lifestyle permits home solar charging (great if your retired in sunny area and managed to install excess solar capacity) but soon as you start travelling significant distances quickly and using fast charges itÂ’s not cheap. Check out GeoffÂ’s vid where he challenges his ev mate to go lands end uk to John o groats.
My car is 20 years old and has original engine. An ev would have needed 2-3 new batteries at about $5k each by then.
With world war beckoning the ability to move fast and quickly refuel is damn attractive. All over the world ev sales are unwinding for various reasons people donÂ’t actually want them.