New zealand refugee quota

[nerrrd]

Hmmm, I'm not sure if you can re-pillage countries you've already pillaged, sorry 'colonised'.

Seems to me that Western civilisation as it stands was built on vast amounts of resources 'discovered' off shore and repatriated back to Europe, making Europe rich enough to start dabbling in more esoteric concerns like human rights etc.

All the money from that ran out quite a while ago though, hence why most of those countries are surviving now on vast amounts of debt, all of which seems to be based on some kind of foreign exchange pyramid scheme, as in if everyone was suddenly forced to stop borrowing and pay everything back, the whole thing would collapse.

Nowadays the big money is on the internet, perhaps someone could try colonising that for a change? Forget Greenland, annex Facebook instead. Maybe then we'll just get lots of digital refugees.

[TheDemonLord]

Hmmm, I'm not sure if you can re-pillage countries you've already pillaged, sorry 'colonised'.

Seems to me that Western civilisation as it stands was built on vast amounts of resources 'discovered' off shore and repatriated back to Europe, making Europe rich enough to start dabbling in more esoteric concerns like human rights etc.

All the money from that ran out quite a while ago though, hence why most of those countries are surviving now on vast amounts of debt, all of which seems to be based on some kind of foreign exchange pyramid scheme, as in if everyone was suddenly forced to stop borrowing and pay everything back, the whole thing would collapse.

Nowadays the big money is on the internet, perhaps someone could try colonising that for a change? Forget Greenland, annex Facebook instead. Maybe then we'll just get lots of digital refugees.

I, personally, cannot stand this narrative that europe only became Rich by resource extraction. It has its roots in (you guessed it) Marxist critique (which posits a zero-sum game, so if Group A succeeds, it must be because they stole success from Group B).

[R650R]

Hmmm, I'm not sure if you can re-pillage countries you've already pillaged, sorry 'colonised'.

Seems to me that Western civilisation as it stands was built on vast amounts of resources 'discovered' off shore and repatriated back to Europe, making Europe rich enough to start dabbling in more esoteric concerns like human rights etc.

All the money from that ran out quite a while ago though, hence why most of those countries are surviving now on vast amounts of debt, all of which seems to be based on some kind of foreign exchange pyramid scheme, as in if everyone was suddenly forced to stop borrowing and pay everything back, the whole thing would collapse.

Nowadays the big money is on the internet, perhaps someone could try colonising that for a change? Forget Greenland, annex Facebook instead. Maybe then we'll just get lots of digital refugees.

Perhaps we could rewind human progress back 600 years or so and everyone will be happy. Your sole existance would be based on finding food to survive rest of day, dodging predators and hoping the hungry tribe across river finds food before they figure out how to cross.

Many people on this site let alone the nation benefit massively from the improvements in lifespan, living standards and medical care that has resulted from “ capitalist” investment in success.Every generation has lived better than previous thanks to all this.
Just look at rescue helicopters in NZ. First we just had one then as our economy grew it’s now a 100% coverage. Yes it’s funded mostly by donation but all that capital has come from economic progress by companies and private individuals.
And now with fast internet and various apps you can now privately invest in the big mega corporations and have a slice of the pie. You mention Facebook, most of us don’t like it but it’s enormously successful, it keeps 82% of all revenue as profit.
For those of you retired or about to retire guess how your supe/kiwisaver is funded. It’s from investing in all these companies.

[nerrrd]

I, personally, cannot stand this narrative that europe only became Rich by resource extraction. It has its roots in (you guessed it) Marxist critique (which posits a zero-sum game, so if Group A succeeds, it must be because they stole success from Group B).

Not judging, that's how it was done back in the day, and it's been a net benefit for me, so "go team pillage!" But I don't have any issue with calling it what it was at the time.

[nerrrd]

Perhaps we could rewind human progress back 600 years or so and everyone will be happy. Your sole existance would be based on finding food to survive rest of day, dodging predators and hoping the hungry tribe across river finds food before they figure out how to cross.

Many people on this site let alone the nation benefit massively from the improvements in lifespan, living standards and medical care that has resulted from “ capitalist” investment in success.Every generation has lived better than previous thanks to all this.
Just look at rescue helicopters in NZ. First we just had one then as our economy grew it’s now a 100% coverage. Yes it’s funded mostly by donation but all that capital has come from economic progress by companies and private individuals.
And now with fast internet and various apps you can now privately invest in the big mega corporations and have a slice of the pie. You mention Facebook, most of us don’t like it but it’s enormously successful, it keeps 82% of all revenue as profit.
For those of you retired or about to retire guess how your supe/kiwisaver is funded. It’s from investing in all these companies.

Again, don't want to go back to that, I'd be dead (lifelong myopia), the world we have now is pretty great for me. But I'd like someone to explain to me how it's going to continue when the vast majority of people are getting deeper and deeper in debt.

[TheDemonLord]

Not judging, that's how it was done back in the day, and it's been a net benefit for me, so "go team pillage!" But I don't have any issue with calling it what it was at the time.

Okay - hear me out for a second - if the goal was *solely* Go Team Pillage - why bother setting up schools - I mean, sure in parts of Australia they did go the exterminate the locals route - but by and large, everywhere the British went, they sought to setup functioning (by Western definitions) societies.

They ended various barbaric tribal practices - sometimes at great financial cost - something that again if the narrative was accurate, then they wouldnt bother.

A more accurate version of events would be that the British helped setup far more efficient industries and running things at scale and yes, some of the profits did go back to the UK...

But that is half the story - consider all the manufacturing that was done in the UK and then purchased and sent overseas - that was not Go Team Pillage - yes, UK industry benefitted greatly from the extra business...

But so did the local economies from having state-of-the-art equipment to help them be more productive

Or to put it another way:

Is Japan currently pillaging New Zealand by being the biggest supplier of Cars?

[Berries]

They ended various barbaric tribal practices.

To be fair they started a few as well.

A more accurate version of events would be that the British helped setup far more efficient industries and running things at scale and yes, some of the profits did go back to the UK...

Would shipping slaves across the Atlantic be a good example of that?

[TheDemonLord]

To be fair they started a few as well.


Would shipping slaves across the Atlantic be a good example of that?

Stopping the practice of slavery would be an even better example.

And here is your timely reminder that every culture and civilization on earth practiced a form of Slavery, until the British said that this was not cool.

Although it is sad to see with the decline of the British Empire the practice has resumed in certain parts of the world (but we wont talk about the cultural and religious practices that allow it...)

[nerrrd]

Okay - hear me out for a second - if the goal was *solely* Go Team Pillage - why bother setting up schools - I mean, sure in parts of Australia they did go the exterminate the locals route - but by and large, everywhere the British went, they sought to setup functioning (by Western definitions) societies.

They ended various barbaric tribal practices - sometimes at great financial cost - something that again if the narrative was accurate, then they wouldnt bother.

A more accurate version of events would be that the British helped setup far more efficient industries and running things at scale and yes, some of the profits did go back to the UK...

But that is half the story - consider all the manufacturing that was done in the UK and then purchased and sent overseas - that was not Go Team Pillage - yes, UK industry benefitted greatly from the extra business...

But so did the local economies from having state-of-the-art equipment to help them be more productive

Or to put it another way:

Is Japan currently pillaging New Zealand by being the biggest supplier of Cars?

I would say that the basic reason that most Europeans came to NZ back in the day was to access as yet untapped economic resources (you might even call them economic refugees). The reason I'd use the word 'pillage' is that some were able to corner those resources here for a fraction of what they would have been worth back home, and turn them into profitable export industries, which might have been a bit unfair for the locals, particularly in hindsight. It also took an awful lot of courage and hard work, which are both things that your average refugee understands.

Once those resources are gone (I hesitate to use the word 'owned' as that's probably some kind of Marxist red flag), you've got to start adding value to what you've already got, which is fine I guess, and what we've been trying to do over the last 50 years or so, but it seems to be less and less successful at sustaining the overall economy, hence we're now forced to prop up pretty much everything with loads of debt.

I'd be very grateful if someone could figure out a way of fixing that.

[mashman]

Once those resources are gone (I hesitate to use the word 'owned' as that's probably some kind of Marxist red flag), you've got to start adding value to what you've already got, which is fine I guess, and what we've been trying to do over the last 50 years or so, but it seems to be less and less successful at sustaining the overall economy, hence we're now forced to prop up pretty much everything with loads of debt.

I'd be very grateful if someone could figure out a way of fixing that.

I know how to fix it... but you're unlikely to like it. That the fix would do the trick is irrelevant

[BMWST?]

A thought about that. If the presidential candidate selects a person to be vice presidential candidate before the election, then, if following the election, the president dies (eg like lincoln, kennedy and hopefully drumpf), when the VP takes over the role, does that mean the US ends up with an unelected president?

thats got nothhing to do with the diussion here.Its no less "democratic" than what has happened here when a prime ministers is rolled or say in the Uk who had Many prime ministers in one term

[BMWST?]

I would say that the basic reason that most Europeans came to NZ back in the day was to access as yet untapped economic resources (you might even call them economic refugees). The reason I'd use the word 'pillage' is that some were able to corner those resources here for a fraction of what they would have been worth back home, and turn them into profitable export industries, which might have been a bit unfair for the locals, particularly in hindsight. It also took an awful lot of courage and hard work, which are both things that your average refugee understands.

Once those resources are gone (I hesitate to use the word 'owned' as that's probably some kind of Marxist red flag), you've got to start adding value to what you've already got, which is fine I guess, and what we've been trying to do over the last 50 years or so, but it seems to be less and less successful at sustaining the overall economy, hence we're now forced to prop up pretty much everything with loads of debt.

I'd be very grateful if someone could figure out a way of fixing that.

And the plebians came for the same reason. They figured it would be better than back home. My own Mother came back with my father in 1945 quite young. They and her parents figured a life in NZ would be better than a war torn UK

[Katman]

But I'd like someone to explain to me how it's going to continue when the vast majority of people are getting deeper and deeper in debt.

That's all part of their plan.

[R650R]

Again, don't want to go back to that, I'd be dead (lifelong myopia), the world we have now is pretty great for me. But I'd like someone to explain to me how it's going to continue when the vast majority of people are getting deeper and deeper in debt.

Debt is a tool to improve your standard of living on a personal level and community level. Most of us take out a mortgage to buy a house as we believe in our ability to pay it back. But we need a house now not at the end of the 25 year period it would take to save purchase price.

Yes some people are badly in debt/poor choices/misused, but that’s just an education issue that’s slowly being fixed.

Debt is a belief in the future value of yourself and your community. The real issue is too many people use debt to buy things that are not assets with the worst probably being motor vehicles of all types. Again a societal educational issue rather than the tool of itself.

[pete376403]

But so did the local economies from having state-of-the-art equipment to help them be more productive

Jamaican sugar plantation slaves, for example. Cecil Rhodes exploitation of the black africans in the De Beers diamond mines would be another