Why can't people be taught proper english as thier second language

[Grahameeboy]

what realy gets up me Grahameeboy is the fact that every one that moves over here for a new way of life and then expects us to change our way of speaking, thinking and living to accommodate them
well if that is what is expexted if you all don't like the way we do things you all have the right to leave

I am not sure I agree.........NZ seems to want to be cosmopolitan so NZ has to adjust as well.......the only way to help them aclimatise is to help them not turn away because we are too up our own arses.

You cannot expect an Asian to aclimatise as quickly as say an English European / American immigrant will.....we should try and befriend not defend.

As a nation NZ sometimes seems very impatient at times.

[Zuki Bandit]

I like the "Take Picture" bit.

[Grahameeboy]

I like the "Take Picture" bit.

...and it's goodnight from him and goodnight from me.........

[Hitcher]

As a nation NZ sometimes seems very inpatient at times.

Would you prefer we were more outpatient?

[_Shrek_]

I am not sure I agree.........NZ seems to want to be cosmopolitan so NZ has to adjust as well.......the only way to help them aclimatise is to help them not turn away because we are too up our own arses.

You cannot expect an Asian to aclimatise as quickly as say an English European / American immigrant will.....we should try and befriend not defend.

As a nation NZ sometimes seems very impatient at times.

I was out riding today with some of the guys i meet on here one of them was welsh and he had to prove he could speak english before he could entre NZ and so did three dutch freinds of ours... so if they had to then why the hell can't the rest of the imports that are coming... in in stead of us having to spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ of our taxs just so we can accommadate them
and further more when we were riding down the waimakariri river we stopped for a leak two of the boys went to use the toilets and found that our oriental friends had had a dump on the floor instead
so why shoudn't we be impatient

[Sanx]

I'm sorry, GB, you're wrong on this one. People who choose to live in a country other than the one they were born in should make an effort to fit in to that country's culture. This includes learning the language. Many asians who move here simply have no intention of learning English to anything more than a rudimentary degree. They stay within Asian-only social groups, and can get by simply speaking Mandarin (or whatever their mother tongue happens to be). They're friends all speak it, the people they do business with all speak it; why should they bother learning English.

And, unfortunately, the Chinese especially have a bit of a reputation in this regard. Rather like ultra-orthodox Jews and Muslims, they don't want to integrate. Why do you think so many cities in the world have a China-town? It's the place where Chinese immigrants went to live, as everyone around them shared the same culture and language. You don't see an Indian-town do you? Sure, there are areas that traditionally have a large Indian population but for the most part, they integrate far more whilst still retaining their own culture and language.

I used to live in one of the ultra-orthodox jewish areas of Manchester. There were shops that had only Hebrew on the windows. The natives were highly unfriendly; and you could quite easily see why Jews have a tendency to be resented wherever they end up. On the other hand, just down the road was a big Indian / Pakistani / Muslim area. All the shops were bright and welcoming. Only English on the windows, apart from the odd sign that read Halal Meat in arabic, for instance. Everyone spoke English to a greater or lesser degree. You might, as a pasty anglo-saxon, have still felt out of place but you were always welcomed. In the Jewish area? Yeah. Right. If you didn't have a skull cap, tassels under your clothes and a stupid beard, you were about as welcome as a pig-roast at a bar-mitzvah and the natives certainly made sure you were aware of this.

(and before someone accuses me of being anti-semitic - as Jews have a tendency to do whenever someone criticises other Jews - my bar-mitzvah was on Shabbat Haggadol, 26th March 1988)

There's a very old saying; when in Rome, do as the Romans. Unfortunately, most groups who now come to NZ expect the Romans to learn their language and make allowances for their customs and beliefs rather than the other way round. There are now councils in the UK who are translating documents into 27 different languages. Vast sums of money are being poured into cultural awareness courses; in one case, some misguided cultural advisor publically criticised a social services worker who reported a family for carrying out female circumcision on their teenage girl. Apparently, this was not culturally sensitive.

I'm sorry, but when in New Zealand, the only culture that should be given the slightest importance is New Zealand culture. No-one else's.

[Hitcher]

There are long-standing members of our community who spectacularly fail to "integrate", irrespective of their country of origin.

People who abuse their children, manufacture and distribute P, sexually molest their kids or others' kids who they abduct for their personal pleasure, people who drive while under the affluence of incohol, others who break into the homes of the defenceless and do unthinkable things to them. Not to mention redneck vigilantes. Given a choice between these fine upstanding citizens and a bunch of Chinese who speak Mandarin and who only deal with other Chinese, I know where my preference lies.

[Brian d marge]

Ahaa Soo Cleatus San Dey ahh still ah talking bout us ,,,,

Cleatus San how your Legneck it ah stil a leg. You musta seek honarable Docata to ahh make it ahh white

Den you can wok in fild with Farma san


Stephen San

[Grahameeboy]

I'm sorry, GB, you're wrong on this one. People who choose to live in a country other than the one they were born in should make an effort to fit in to that country's culture. This includes learning the language. Many asians who move here simply have no intention of learning English to anything more than a rudimentary degree. They stay within Asian-only social groups, and can get by simply speaking Mandarin (or whatever their mother tongue happens to be). They're friends all speak it, the people they do business with all speak it; why should they bother learning English.

And, unfortunately, the Chinese especially have a bit of a reputation in this regard. Rather like ultra-orthodox Jews and Muslims, they don't want to integrate. Why do you think so many cities in the world have a China-town? It's the place where Chinese immigrants went to live, as everyone around them shared the same culture and language. You don't see an Indian-town do you? Sure, there are areas that traditionally have a large Indian population but for the most part, they integrate far more whilst still retaining their own culture and language.

I used to live in one of the ultra-orthodox jewish areas of Manchester. There were shops that had only Hebrew on the windows. The natives were highly unfriendly; and you could quite easily see why Jews have a tendency to be resented wherever they end up. On the other hand, just down the road was a big Indian / Pakistani / Muslim area. All the shops were bright and welcoming. Only English on the windows, apart from the odd sign that read Halal Meat in arabic, for instance. Everyone spoke English to a greater or lesser degree. You might, as a pasty anglo-saxon, have still felt out of place but you were always welcomed. In the Jewish area? Yeah. Right. If you didn't have a skull cap, tassels under your clothes and a stupid beard, you were about as welcome as a pig-roast at a bar-mitzvah and the natives certainly made sure you were aware of this.

(and before someone accuses me of being anti-semitic - as Jews have a tendency to do whenever someone criticises other Jews - my bar-mitzvah was on Shabbat Haggadol, 26th March 1988)

There's a very old saying; when in Rome, do as the Romans. Unfortunately, most groups who now come to NZ expect the Romans to learn their language and make allowances for their customs and beliefs rather than the other way round. There are now councils in the UK who are translating documents into 27 different languages. Vast sums of money are being poured into cultural awareness courses; in one case, some misguided cultural advisor publically criticised a social services worker who reported a family for carrying out female circumcision on their teenage girl. Apparently, this was not culturally sensitive.

I'm sorry, but when in New Zealand, the only culture that should be given the slightest importance is New Zealand culture. No-one else's.

Just a different view...............I had to proove I could speak English too...mind you I am a Londoner....and I was waiting to get my NZ licence and there was some gezzer with a translator....did it bother me "No".

I guess I come from a Country where immigrants stay together....it is only natural...like there are heaps of Brits in Devonport, just a few South Africans and Zimbarbians along the hibiscus coast and I guess there are a lot of Kiwi's in London who never leave London to see the culture.

I have been here 9 years, deal with a lot of Asians whose English is not great but I manage...do you honestly expect Asians, Chinese with a long history of Culture i.e. longer than Kiwi's to become Kiwi's overnight......but the next generation will.

A lot of Asians contribute a lot to the community and to the Govts coffers

China Towns are very popular with non Chinapeople. Bling lotta tourist with plenty money......Indians, well they tend to settle in there own areas.

And as Hitcher says the NZ culture is not great so I guess it must be alright for Asians to abuse their kids because they are just doing as the 'Kiwi's' do.

At the end of the day what real harm do they do and what harm is done by lack of 'patience'

Ivory towers and all that.

[Marmoot]

I'm sorry, GB, you're wrong on this one. People who choose to live in a country other than the one they were born in should make an effort to fit in to that country's culture. This includes learning the language.....

There's a very old saying; when in Rome, do as the Romans. Unfortunately, most groups who now come to NZ expect the Romans to learn their language and make allowances for their customs and beliefs rather than the other way round. ....

Hahahah, I don't see many of us here speaks Maori fluently?

[Sanx]

Hahahah, I don't see many of us here speaks Maori fluently?

Correct, but the predominant culture and language in NZ is not Maori. it's Anglo-European.

[Marmoot]

Correct, but the predominant culture and language in NZ is not Maori. it's Anglo-European.

Oh really now? Even before the Brittish colony (immigrants) came here? Or did they come here and speak English and refuse to speak Maori?

[Grahameeboy]

Correct, but the predominant culture and language in NZ is not Maori. it's Anglo-European.

That's right, forgot that tourists only visit NZ to meet Anglo-European's and learn from their culture which goes back centuries...........and there was me thinking it was the Maori Culture they were interested in........well ya learn something new every day.....Mods..can I have a sarcasm face?

[avgas]

Sad fact of the matter is people are scared that if they speak Maori in nz, they will be sued by Tuhoi.
I mean theoretically we all learnt it till we were 14 right??? or did you all have smoking maori teaches like me who only wanted a smoke so we all when outside and played touch.

[Sanx]

Oh really now? Even before the Brittish colony (immigrants) came here? Or did they come here and speak English and refuse to speak Maori?

You can't compare modern-day immigration to empire-building. No, colonists did not come to NZ and fit in with Maori culture - they brought their own. But colonists coming from the UK were hardly likely to revert back to a stone-age hunter-gatherer cannablistic society, were they? Even if they weren't absolutely convinced of that their way of doing things was superior.

That's right, forgot that tourists only visit NZ to meet Anglo-European's and learn from their culture which goes back centuries...........and there was me thinking it was the Maori Culture they were interested in........well ya learn something new every day.....Mods..can I have a sarcasm face?

Learn from Maori culture? Oh come on. It might pose a passing interest to people, but for the most part your average tourist Maori cultural experience happens whilst visiting the boiling mud pools in Rotorua; and people go mainly to see the boiling mud. Yes, you will get people that come to NZ to learn about Maori and the culture, but I'm willing to bet the number who put down that as their primary reason make up a tiny fraction of the total. So why do people come to NZ? Let's put "Why go to New Zealand?" into Google and see what the font of all knowledge says:
iExplore.com: Mentions beaches, marine parks, volcanic areas, skiing in the Southern Alps, prehistoric forests, unique flora, low crime rate, no poisonous animals, adventure tourism, wilderness and a friendly population. Maori culture gets one sentence in Northland's piece: "It also gives tourists the opportunity to begin to understand Maori culture, art and history."
LetsGo.com: Maori get half a sentence: "The native Maori’s reverence for their homeland and the spirits who dwell within it inscribe a sanctity upon the land...". Attractions listed include smoking volcanos, ecological diversity, walking tracks, nature reserves, national parks, and adventure tourism. Their Best of New Zealand section contains not one mention of the word "Maori".
Lonely Planet: Nothing Maori on the front page. It's all glacial mountains, clear rivers, boiling muc, hissing geysers, native forests, elusive fauna, unique flora and adventure tourism. Read a bit further, and the Northland bit mentions the signing of the Treaty of Waitangi and where Pakeha first landed. However, the guide talks more about Northland's beaches, museums (the kauri museum, specifically), and diving spots. The Culture and History section mentions Kupe and the waka, then it's all western history until a small bit at the end about treaty settlements and Maori protests.

OK, this is hardly a scientific examination or survey, but on the whole (speaking as someone not born in this country) people don't come here to experience Maori culture. They may experience some of it whilst they are here, but it's more something to do on a rainy Tuesday afternoon than the prime reason fo visiting this country.