Proposed new wet tyre rule

[Blondini]

Jump up and down and make a noise where it matters If you do nothing you will change nothing but if you make yourself heard to mnz they have to listen...Or Plan B..Protest and call me They sound like the SYSTEM and I LOVE to deal with the systems..sing out if you want a loud voice

[Kickaha]

well where were we? Damn, a couple of days of posts lost

still nothing up on the MNZ site

[scrivy]

Shall we go slotcar racing Kick??
Nice and safe.............

[sidecar bob]

Shall we go slotcar racing Kick??
Nice and safe.............

Or soggy biscuit racing??

[Tim 39]

oh gutted! we lost almost two pages of shit talk, we better make up for it then.. lol

[Kickaha]

Or soggy biscuit racing??

I heard you're unbeaten at that

keep it on topic please gentleman (and scrivy)

[dangerous]

keep it on topic please gentleman (and scrivy)

OHHHHHHHHHHH naughty boys, the Kick has spoken... now pull ya farking heads in and lets sort this shit, whos in charge of you three wheeled lot?
get something togeather and send it to MNZ, or are ya all as ball less as that grumpy coke drinking mod?

[budda]

What a shame that the "lost" pages have disappeared from public viewing ...... was just starting to build up a head of steam !!!!! Still, the apparent PRIVATE e-mail campaign launched by certain members against those who openly disagree with them will keep me amused, I'm sure. Knock yourself out !

For the benefit and edification of all those who DID read the "roswell pages", let me make my position on the 150 tyre issue crystal clear......

I am NOT on an anti-150 crusade .... I have been saying for years that I believe the vast majority of the 150 class goings-on are great. Good Grief, its resulted in 40+ new kids on bikes having fun - how the hell can THAT be a bad thing ? Those who have worked so long and hard to get it to this level have rightly been applauded in the past.

Re the wet tyre debate - My PERSONAL preference is that those who ride should decide. PERIOD......
However, I do NOT apologise for believing that the insistence that 150's are somehow automatically faster AND safer in the wet on slicks is based on mis-information, slanted stats, and a sad lack of common sense.

This IS a safety issue, the concerned parents are RIGHTLY concerned that incorrect tyre choice may impact on the ability of their child to effectively control their bike. The old axiom that "the WISE winner only goes as fast as he NEEDS to to win" bears repeating to some of these crash prone kids - to go from SLICKS back to TREADED tyres DOES require adjustment to how you ride ... if you are already going fast on slicks ( and some of these wee buggers are NOT slow ! ) and then try and match that pace on treaded rubber , you increase your chances of a crash. Simple.

If all riders were on rubber that gave no performance advantage, isnt it likely that the best racers would still place at the front ?

I'd like someone to explain, in simple terms even I can understand, how it is that if the majority of the competitors in what was DESIGNED AND BUILT to be the nursery class for our chosen sport really DO have the tyre and set-up nouse, the experience and the wisdom to make the best tyre choice for conditions that can be treacherous at best, WHY THE HELL DO WE STILL NEED TO BE TRAINING THEM ?

Sorry Guys, SAFETY FIRST

Yours in Motorcycling

[Kickaha]

Re the wet tyre debate - My PERSONAL preference is that those who ride should decide. PERIOD......

Agreed

However, I do NOT apologise for believing that the insistence that 150's are somehow automatically faster AND safer in the wet on slicks is based on mis-information, slanted stats, and a sad lack of common sense.

So you've read the stats and analysed how they were gathered?

I've raced on slicks in the wet at the SI cup (and various other meetings) on a bucket and my wet pace would be 95% of my dry, I've had guys on treaded tyres crash in front of me and gone on to win the race, slicks work in the wet there is no doubt in my mind about that

[gav]

And is there a tyre on the market to suit 150's that is better in the wet than a cut slick, apart from a full race wet?
Do you, Buddha, have any personal experience of riding a 150 or bucket in the rain on slicks?

[Sketchy_Racer]

When someone else Is going to put the effort in to 'fix' the problem with 150 tyres then great. good on them.

BUT at the moment the only person i see pouring a shit load of HIS time and effort into this i Pete Jones. He has put together statistics and all sorts of crap to make it easier and SAFER in his eyes for these kids to race without huge cost. Why would you want to screw that up? WHY. The statistics PROOVE that they slicks are safe in the rain. Just as safe as ANY tyre (actually safer) on a streetstock 150 in the rain.

I know from personal experience that the slicks do work well in the wet. I am a Horrible wet racer and i know it, but i felt as safe as houses learning a new track on a unfamiliar bike, in pissing rain. ON SLICKS (I qualifyed 8th in the wet if i remember correctly, got second in the first race, and won the last)

I don't like the fact that MNZ want to slap a rule on ALL the classes and expect everyone else to 'deal with it'

My PERSONAL preference is that those who ride should decide. PERIOD

So let the rider decide for themself then.

That statement goes against everything this 'new' rule is about. You want to change the rules so that the rider CAN'T choose and that one dude thats just watching the track and isn't acctually riding or has a full understanding of the track conditions is making the call. Sounds stupid to me.

Don't Fix What Aint Broken!

If there is any saftey concerns.. mine would be the amount of Paint that is on the track at manfeild. Myself and 3 other riders hit the paint and crashed.. some avoidable, some not. How about fix that.

[oyster]

Want to read the minutes of 90 minute meeting? Gonna be long and boring? No way, the first 90% of this meeting is simply minuted as:
"discussions when both parties had presented material for and against"
Then, what MNZ wants is minuted in full detail, (including alterations!)
To cap it off, a vote that was taken BEFORE this submission does a time warp to after it so we arrive happy ever after with unanimous agreement...

My next post will have what WAS voted on, unanimously.

The minutes MNZ style:

"near the conclusion of the discussions when both
> parties had presented material for and against rule 22-12-10,
> Mr J Hepburn put to the meeting the following.
>
>
> He proposed that a Dot /European approved tyre or slick could
> be used for the dry, however if the race was declared wet then
> a Dot/European tyre or a full race wet should be used for that
> race. (No grooved slicks).
>
> The proviso being that for the tyres whether they be road,
> slick or wets that these tyres would be in line with the tyre
> manufactures specifications of tyre too recommended rim
> measurements.
>
> Specifications to be sourced from tyre distributors these will
> be gazetted when available.
>
> All person present, by a show of hands unanimously approved
> this rule proposal.
>
> This rule will only apply to the 150cc street stock class."
>

[oyster]

This is the Otago club submission as read out and discussed at the meeting.
The discussion "kicked around" for a while so a parent said, "let's vote", and MNZ approved that. About 70% for it, no one against it. The chairman asked why did people abstain. They explained they weren't Streetstock riders or supporters, so not eligible.


This the Otago Submission:

"We propose the tyre rule for streetstock be open as per classes (F3,F4 and F5) where the tyre choice is open and a rider can choose to use a variety of tyres including slick, grooved slick, DOT approved road legal or full race wet tyres.



The rule 22-12-10 would read:



The choice of tyre is optional, tyre warmers are not allowed. If the race is declared wet then the choice of tyre is at the discretion of the rider. A full race wet tyre marked “not for highway use” may be used.



As the MNZ rule book does not have any rule or guidelines on a regarding a race wet I have included below rule 1.20.1.2 from the FIM rules which I suggest should be added into our rule book.



"A race classified as wet, usually commenced in varying or wet conditions, will not be interrupted for climatic reasons and riders who wish to change tyres or make adjustments must enter the pits and do so during the actual race"



Our reasons for suggesting the proposed rule (22-12-10) is as follows:



Other racing classes with open or optional tyre rule such as Production Superbike and Formula Three and for that matter 125GP allow the rider to make his or her choice based on the conditions and what they believe is the best racing decision. In the event of a rider making an incorrect choice of tyres for the conditions they ultimately take the responsibility for that decision and the organisers, Stewards, Club or MNZ are not held to account.

After this submission MNZ was asked, directly to it's lawyer, if there were any objections to this. "does it leave any legal problems?" This question was not answered.

This is still what the Streetstock riders want, and if others support us, it'll be appreciated. Thanks

[Sketchy_Racer]

Im in support.

Especially because i want to have a set of grooved slicks for intermediates at the nationals. (along with wets and slicks obviously)

[Maido]

I know from personal experience that the slicks do work well in the wet. I am a Horrible wet racer and i know it, but i felt as safe as houses learning a new track on a unfamiliar bike, in pissing rain. ON SLICKS (I qualifyed 8th in the wet if i remember correctly, got second in the first race, and won the last)

Im in support.
Especially because i want to have a set of grooved slicks for intermediates at the nationals. (along with wets and slicks obviously)

Can you clarify why would you need a set of intermediate's AND wet's when you just stated that you think slicks are "safe as houses" "in pissing rain"?

Disclaimer: this isn't a personal attack, I am just interested to know.