Now I've heard it all

[Her_C4]

Also, do you seriously think that prison staff would want to be stuck as Detox nurses? they are neither trained for this or paid to do such a dirty job...

I have helped a friend going cold turkey while in Paris, and trust me, that is way bigger a task than it seems...You have to be monitoring that person 24/7.

Anyway, rant over...

Agree with everything you have said here - it is a HUUUUUGE task that has to be fitted in amongst a number of other unseen HUUUUUUUGE tasks.

[Ocean1]

Why is it hard??? Because your arguments would (possibly) work on people with a shred of normal and reasonable mental capacity...We are talking of individuals that do not live on the same standard as ours, who no longer feel integrated or a part of society and therefor do not give a crap whether they conform or not...

Hard or easy don't matter. What matters is the the law says "Thou shalt NOT..." So what'ryagunado? Just figure "Oh well, we tried."

Sorry, it don't matter how normal or reasonable they are, they don't get to continue to fuck the rest of us around.

You have to be monitoring that person 24/7.

Sooo... bit like doing proper poridge then?

[007XX]

Agree with everything you have said here - it is a HUUUUUGE task that has to be fitted in amongst a number of other unseen HUUUUUUUGE tasks.

Thanks, and yes, most definitely...that was one of the most interesting and terrifying conversation I ever had: with a prison guard from the States, who transfered here and kept in the same line of work...I won't go into details, but I am not an easily impressed person, but some of the stories that were recounted were truly mind boggling!

It's a different world we law abiding folks can't even start to comprehend...

[sAsLEX]

I understand going cold turkey's a bitch...

I will go cold turkey tomorrow ....... no skin off my neck.



imho thats a weak excuse for the majority they have got themselves in that situation, get themselves out!

[ManDownUnder]

Why is it hard??? Because your arguments would (possibly) work on people with a shred of normal and reasonable mental capacity...We are talking of individuals that do not live on the same standard as ours, who no longer feel integrated or a part of society and therefor do not give a crap whether they conform or not...

Saving money is a foreign concept to them and would not be a valid weighing factor...

And yes, most of them are dumb enough to go back on drugs! how smart can you be in the first to end up in prison??? I mean c'mon, these people DO NOT think like you and I...

Also, do you seriously think that prison staff would want to be stuck as Detox nurses? they are neither trained for this or paid to do such a dirty job...

I have helped a friend going cold turkey while in Paris, and trust me, that is way bigger a task than it seems...You have to be monitoring that person 24/7.

Anyway, rant over...

LOL uh huh. I guess I'm lucky not to have been there, but then I think it's something I bring to the conversation.

I'm not saying put prison staff on watch as detox nurses - this is (as I understand) a life and death situation, meaning specialised staff are needed. So supply them. My previous rants about how to save money on prisoners by minimising their luxuries, as well as making them earn their keep cover the cash side of things.

I'm not sorried about their ability to save money either. My point is if they are clean they will not need to steal/sell drugs/prostitute themselves in order to find cash to pay bad bastards for drugs. They'll have money for kids, food, power and bettering their own life. whether they think like I do or not is secondary. If there is an opportunity to show someone how to live a better life, and to make the bad life more undesirable - I'm saying we take it.

The simple fact is if they are on drugs they need help off them, and if they're in prison and on drugs I want to know how that's possible. The system has failed, and those on drugs have failed. Lets fix 'em both.

[007XX]

Hard or easy don't matter. What matters is the the law says "Thou shalt NOT..." So what'ryagunado? Just figure "Oh well, we tried."

Sorry, it don't matter how normal or reasonable they are, they don't get to continue to fuck the rest of us around.

Oh c'mon...I'm not saying throw in the towel and put your head under the blanket (no dutch oven please! ), but we have to be reasonnable with the expectations, and throwing it all on prison staff is kind of dismissive and irresponsible...Prisons are the "ambulance at the bottom of the cliff" method...what happened to nipping things in the bud, eh? Stop these people before they get as bad as they are...

Let's be responsible before bad things happen...or is that too harduous a task to contemplate?

Sooo... bit like doing proper poridge then?

Its porridgeto start with......
and I was more thinking of guacamole myself, but Ok! whatever works for you

[Her_C4]

Needle exchange programmes urged for prisons
By JENNY LING - The Dominion Post | Tuesday, 28 August 2007

Needle exchange programmes in prisons and counsellors in police cells are being touted as solutions to drug use in jails.

........

Perhaps they could also knit nice little needle covers so that the needles don't get dirty when not in use? I think that would be a very useful and caring thing to do.

Yes please - as long as it means I am not going to get a needle stick injury during a cell search or be menaced / attacked by an inmate with HIV or Hep then I am all for it.

The management of the illicit trade of contraband through (over and under)the prison walls is another story altogether.

It's a different world we law abiding folks can't even start to comprehend...

You got that right - in so many ways....

[Ocean1]

How naive .... where there is a will there is a way.

By all means lets make the prisons staff job a WHOLE lot easier. And make sure that all children are included - even babies, in terms of non-contact visits.

I strongly suspect that there would be no argument from any quarter within Prisons on any or all of these as a part measure... after all, they have been mooted for the last 20 years that I know of - (and I suspect a whole lot more).

Do you think these ideas are new?

The key I am trying to get at here, is that we can reinvent the wheel until the cows come home but unless we get some REALLY strong champions to change the legislation and address those lobbyists that care so profoundly for the inmates individual rights - regardless of their penchant for crime, drugs or other activities that push the boundaries of 'acceptable' society rules - then you are pushing shit uphill.

Yup, definitely cart before the cow. The "service" in question is called "Corrections", which aught to be a clue about where the problem is. I figure a system called "Incarcerations" is what the taxpayer probably wants. IE: Keep the fuckers away from me and mine, and don't spend too much doing it.

[007XX]

IE: Keep the fuckers away from me and mine, and don't spend too much doing it.

Exactly...so why does it never seem to happen? It's a simple enough concept, isn't it?

[Grub]

- then you are pushing shit uphill.

No argument, but then so were Einstein, Madame Currie, Da Vinci, Sir Alexander Fleming, Pasteur, Isaac Newton, Pons and Fleischmann, Duesberg, Nitse, Carthage Perpetua, J J Rowling and George de Mestral the guy who invented velcro...

Didn't stop them did it?

[ManDownUnder]

Yup, definitely cart before the cow. The "service" in question is called "Corrections", which aught to be a clue about where the problem is. I figure a system called "Incarcerations" is what the taxpayer probably wants. IE: Keep the fuckers away from me and mine, and don't spend too much doing it.

Yeah - I'm a fan of second chances, but for those wanting to stay in the crime lifestyle I need a system that keeps them out of mine.

[007XX]

No argument, but then so were Einstein, Madame Currie, Da Vinci, Sir Alexander Fleming, Pasteur, Isaac Newton, Pons and Fleischmann, Duesberg, Nitse, Carthage Perpetua, J J Rowling and George de Mestral the guy who invented velcro...

Didn't stop them did it?

These were individuals, we are asking for a complete governement to change its policies and become responsible...(Tui, anyone?)

[ManDownUnder]

Exactly...so why does it never seem to happen? It's a simple enough concept, isn't it?

The PC brigade have take the conversation too far to the left. I think we're looking a range of options for corrective help that don't seem to really work keeping people from re-offending, but they cost more.

We must be getting close to the time where we (as a society) simply say "ENOUGH".

We have the options of
a) Spending $75,000/prisoner and have a reoffending rate of 70%
or
b) Spending $30,000/prisoner and have a reoffending rate of 70%

I vote b - and put the cash saved into longer sentences, better working conditions, pay and staff numbers for essential servicesd (Police, Nursing, teachers) etc and start building society from the ground floor. Teaching people right from wrong, keeping people in good health, keeping the bad bastards off the street and making life enjoyable and more comfortable for those of us in society.

The problem is people are too scared to question the rights of prisoners. I'm not saying don't respect them, I'm saying recognise the fact they have less rights than the rest of society... and move on.

I'd love to hear the thoughts from the prison officers/police on that one.

[Grub]

These were individuals, we are asking for a complete governement to change its policies and become responsible...(Tui, anyone?)

To a point, but eventually they managed to change collective wisdom, science, governments and the way people live.

I guess this is getting a little off-topic but I've never thought that "too hard" is a valid reason for not trying.

[007XX]

The PC brigade have take the conversation too far to the left. I think we're looking a range of options for corrective help that don't seem to really work keeping people from re-offending, but they cost more.

We must be getting close to the time where we (as a society) simply say "ENOUGH".

We have the options of
a) Spending $75,000/prisoner and have a reoffending rate of 70%
or
b) Spending $30,000/prisoner and have a reoffending rate of 70%

I vote b - and put the cash saved into longer sentences, better working conditions, pay and staff numbers for essential servicesd (Police, Nursing, teachers) etc and start building society from the ground floor. Teaching people right from wrong, keeping people in good health, keeping the bad bastards off the street and making life enjoyable and more comfortable for those of us in society.

The problem is people are too scared to question the rights of prisoners. I'm not saying don't respect them, I'm saying recognise the fact they have less rights than the rest of society... and move on.

I'd love to hear the thoughts from the prison officers/police on that one.

Can you run for Prime Minister?..Honnest, I'd vote for someone who thinks like that and ACTUALLY carries it out, not just says that to get the votes, then lines their pockets and just forgets about all promises made...