Proposed new wet tyre rule

[Shaun]

Shaun, I'm sorry I've upset you so much. But I'm upset too, upset because of all the needless effort and and time going in the wrong direction, where it could've been spent on good stuff like training manuals, coaching, training more stewards and suchlike that really progress our sport. And believe me, I am a great supporter of MNZ. Guys like Paul Stewart and Johnny Hepburn
are hard working great people and we'd be right stuffed without them. I have huge respect for them. But imagine how frustrated I felt when MNZ insisted on a meeting where about 40 of the Streestock parents and kids met the MNZ board (for their first time) in conditions where they looked really incompetent, downright silly in fact.
Not my wish at all, and I did everything I could to avert this PR disaster. Believe me.
I hope positive things do come out of my moan, that MNZ realise there are minimum standards. That ignoring well presented and factual concerns, and even sometimes throwing insults back is just not on. A responsive and professional MNZ WILL be the new MNZ and I hope it comes soon.
Again, sorry Shaun. I certainly won't say any more, and definitely won't tackle you on what you've said here.

Mate, as I said in my post above, I know you are a good man, and are very good for our sport, you have helped bring on so many riders through your work habits with racing.

I know that issues like this can be very frustrating at times, I have been racing involved for over 23 years now, so have had simillar problems over the years mate.

Please stay involved Oyster, you are bloody good for our sport!

[Joni]

I agree Shaun Oyster is great for the sport.

Maybe someone can step in and help Oyster... when he gets angry and frustrated, be the person who communicates the issues to MNZ and others on his behalf , help out where needed etc etc... then he does not feel all alone and frustrated?? Which means emotions might not get this hightened?

Pete you know I respect you very much, but maybe someone can help with the communication side of things... dont know, just a suggestion. (no offence meant).

[Tim 39]

I agree Shaun Oyster is great for the sport.

Maybe someone can step in and help Oyster... when he gets angry and frustrated, be the person who communicates the issues to MNZ and others on his behalf , help out where needed etc etc... then he does not feel all alone and frustrated?? Which means emotions might not get this hightened?

Pete you know I repsect you very much, but maybe someone can help with the communication side of things... dont know, just a suggestion. (no offence meant).

Good suggestion, just need to find someone to do it. Oyster does a lot for streetstock and it'd be good to see people help with the organising. I (and others from the Otago club) have tried running training days that were badly supported. Not only does someone need to do it but also everyone to support what they are doing (what has been annoying oyster at the moment I reckon)

[Shaun]

Good suggestion, just need to find someone to do it. Oyster does a lot for streetstock and it'd be good to see people help with the organising. I (and others from the Otago club) have tried running training days that were badly supported. Not only does someone need to do it but also everyone to support what they are doing (what has been annoying oyster at the moment I reckon)

So perhaps now is a good time, for people that know Oyster and the programme that he is so involved in, to get together, and talk together, about choosing some one to be the spokes person fo this project.

Oyster cannot do all this on his own, and I trully believe that when one person tries to do so much, it becomes so personell, that often things get distorted, and can end up being a negative, rather than a positive.

It is also up to all of us remember that this site is just a M/cycle web site, it is not the place where we can get access to our CEO or race division manager to discuss issue's with.

So what really is the point of getting on here, and making a post under a fictisious name about the sport, I honestly believe that if people were serious enough about the sport or certain issue with it, then that person would spend the $2 it may cost them to make a phone call, or even to write an appropriate letter to the correct dept, to get an officuall awnser to there problem.

I know it is brilliant to be able to discuss idea's with one and all, but most of these race related issue's that come up on this site, are talked about by the same few, and I do mean Few only, as I have been watching this go on for over 12 months now.

[Tim 39]

I have an idea... how about we break down the small tasks that can be handled by anyone (that Oyster doesn't have to do himself) and then just give points for the likes of sportzfotoz cup or some other thing. like say each task is 1 point or something, that way we are getting these people helping their own class and is a good thing to get them doing. The other option is to keep track of the points and have some sort of prize. Basicly just something to encourage these kids to pull their own weight, with a bit of luck it'll carry on up the classes as they do.

is it a good idea? I reckon if we decide on something like this then we can give it to oyster, or someone who can start this off. Most of these guys are keen to help but don't know what to do, so a sheet with tasks and points awarded or something

[oyster]

Yep guys, that's fine. Shoot me, then after a visit to the taxidermist I'll end up in some museum.
The plaque will read:
"HOMO OYSTERIS"
A rare specimen of a culture where straight questions got straights answers, personal insults and sarcasm weren't tolerated, mistakes resulted in apologies, consultation was two way, (along with respect) and when people said things, they meant it.
This breed became extinct in the efforts to find similar creatures to work / live with. This specimen was put out of it's misery while trying to find a successful relationship with a particularly difficult organisation. It only seemed fair.

[Shaun]

Yep guys, that's fine. Shoot me, then after a visit to the taxidermist I'll end up in some museum.
The plaque will read:
"HOMO OYSTERIS"
A rare specimen of a culture where straight questions got straights answers, personal insults and sarcasm weren't tolerated, mistakes resulted in apologies, consultation was two way, (along with respect) and when people said things, they meant it.
This breed became extinct in the efforts to find similar creatures to work / live with. This specimen was put out of it's misery while trying to find a successful relationship with a particularly difficult organisation. It only seemed fair.

Is this you saying,

thanks for trying to help guys,?

or is it you saying bugger off and leave me alone to do this my way and on my own?

Not sure sorry

[Joni]

I am not sure either Pete, because my suggestion was only in an attempt to help you and what you have been doing, by maybe relieving some of the burdens you deal with alone from day to day.

[Shaun]

I am not sure either Pete, because my suggestion was only in an attempt to help you and what you have been doing, by maybe relieving some of the burdens you deal with alone from day to day.

It may well just be his sense of humour? I hope so!

[cowpoos]

Yep guys, that's fine. Shoot me, then after a visit to the taxidermist I'll end up in some museum.
The plaque will read:
"HOMO OYSTERIS"
A rare specimen of a culture where straight questions got straights answers, personal insults and sarcasm weren't tolerated, mistakes resulted in apologies, consultation was two way, (along with respect) and when people said things, they meant it.
This breed became extinct in the efforts to find similar creatures to work / live with. This specimen was put out of it's misery while trying to find a successful relationship with a particularly difficult organisation. It only seemed fair.

Sounds like your giving up a big part of your passion?? hope not...your a big name NZ wide for your efforts in the sport in the south Island!!

I think in this case...if something went to court...it will be easier for lawyers to find so called professionals to be agaisnts your findings...no matter what they are...and for that reason...they are probally covering their arse's...
But that is by no means the end of it...shaun made some suggestions about writing letters in?? and I think I would make a serious complaint about the minutes from the meeting...because that isn't kosher!

We're acctually really lucky for the most part this is a amatur sport in NZ...I would hate to think what could happen to it if OSH got involved!!!

[Maarty]

Hi guys,
I have been following this thread and have finally decided to speak!
Pete, no one was attacking you personally at Teratonga that day, you and I had a frank and open discussion, we spoke to all the same people, shaun, dave, terry, pav,brian, stroudy, and others. The conditions that day this all started we beyond bad. my interest in this whole affair was purely from a safety point of view and I was speaking from a 25 year veteren of road racing!
In spite of what has been said about me in the south, I am basically for what you are trying to do, I have EXTENSIVE experience of 150s and treaded tyres, in fact they are still going slower than times Dennis and I were doing when Tim ran the winter series!
My motivation is from someone who is watching the riders that have come through the 150 system. I have one riding for me now who attended you school! He is a rider that is going to go far and I think that 150 experience has helped.
I am someone who will continue to support young riders get a leg in the door by offering them rides on my bikes.
BUT!
Not at the expense of safety.
These kids are the future of our sport, not you or I or even gremlin.(sorry mate!) We are done and dusted, these young men and women are the very foundation of the future, if we let them throw themselves into the ground for no good reason then we risk losing them altogether, lose enough and soon we have nobody to be the next Sam Smith, Haden Fitzgerald etc.
Some scribes have extoled the virtues of slicks in the wet, I have raced in the rain on slicks, I have raced in the dry on wets! BUT only when the weather conditions have prevailed post race starts! I am damn sure that I would never start a wet race on slick if I had a choice to do otherwise.
I am a little surprised that people would blame paint for crashing! all the while expounding the greatness of slicks in the wet then say they were going to get inters and wets for the nats? Stinks of hypocrisy to me!
The bottom line is, why not let our youth become all they can be by racing safely.
Thats my view for what it is worth.

[Sketchy_Racer]

Hey ya maarty nice to see you on here

expounding the greatness of slicks in the wet then say they were going to get inters and wets for the nats? Stinks of hypocrisy to me!
The bottom line is, why not let our youth become all they can be by racing safely.
Thats my view for what it is worth.

My response to a similar question was

For me its national level on a 125GP bike.. I want every inch of compeditivness as possible. some times (like the last two rounds of VIC) it's been too cold for slicks to work perfectly, but too dry for wets.. so you want a happy medium. therefore Cuts

For street stock i believe that grooved slicks (which is what they have) would be the best bet. But even straight slicks are ok. The reasoning is that they are Cheaper and easier and perform 10 time better than street tyres that are a few heat cycles old.

The idea is that YES, wets would perform better than a slick in the rain, and intermediates would, but a slick in the rain is better than any of the current grooved road tyres for the streetstock bikes.

125GP and streetstock are significantly different, you have to compare apples with apples

Streetstock is an introduction class, which is supposed to be safe.
125GP is a full compeditive class. If i wanted to just pootle around a track, i'd still be in streetstock.

-Glen

I am a little surprised that people would blame paint for crashing

Blame the paint? maybe... It was definatly a major contributing factor to my crash.

Bad tyre? Yeah.. i was scrubbing a new slick in damp conditions.. (although only one other rider was on wets, and i qualifyed second. Ahead of him i might add)

I would love to hear you're honest opinion as to what the cause of the accident was. How come i can have a tyre that grips well enough through the turns at a speed that i could slid my knee.. yet down a straight I have a serious lack of traction. Inconsistent grip caused by white paint would be my guess

But yeah, I really would like to hear your honest opinon

Cheers,

-Glen

[Kickaha]

Some scribes have extoled the virtues of slicks in the wet, I have raced in the rain on slicks,

Me too, and I've won on them more than once leaving bikes with treaded tyres a fair way behind in atrocious pissing down freezing cold conditions at Teretonga and not quite so bad conditions at Ruapuna

I am damn sure that I would never start a wet race on slick if I had a choice to do otherwise.

I would quite happily start a wet race on slicks after racing on slicks in the wet I abandoned plans on having spare wheels with wets on them as I didn't feel I needed them

My experience is on Buckets, but on slicks in the wet we used to clean up 3/4 of the 150 field

[oyster]

At the MNZ appeal meeting some stats were presented, and it was made clear they were to be challenged if anyone wasn't happy with them. No one took up the offer.

Jan 20th at Ruapuna Nat support class Streetstock
RAINING in qualifying
43 riders, (17 on treaded tyres, 26 on Grooved slicks)
Av tread lap time 2.20.8, av slick time 2.17.8
Best tread time, 2.13 (these TT900 tyres were fresh, and the rider got 2nd in the series)
Next best tread time 2.16 (again, fresh tyres, BT39SS. Rider full time rider,
huge experience in small cap and big race bikes. Recently scored 10th in an AMA superbike race in the rain)

Best slick time 2.05 This rider got first in the series (well deserved)

Who says the slicks dont work?

Now for the overall stats
86 000km, 4 years, 80 bikes, 3 circuits, 100 bikes.
22% on treaded tyres, 78% on slicks.
Average crash rate over this time:
304km per crash for treads
2089 km per crash for slicks

Who says the slicks are unsafe?

Before people (including MNZ ) jump to conclusions, they should check the facts first

[dangerous]

Bloody hell maarty... see what ya gone n done, I just got every body to bed, it was nice n quite in here