Uni of Life v Uni Degree?

[bomma]

hehe contentious alright.....this is basically a repost of myself in a different thread wher i got shit for sayin what i did....education = highest level of study achieved, simple and objective

doesnt mean im any smarter or wiser or more intelligent, just means ive done a combination of papers that have provided me the pathway to gaining a degree in a certain field

p.s. the first post where im quoted is taken outta context mum (i dont mind just thought id point that out)

[kiwifruit]

Are you smarter than a 10 year old?

u r

[The Pastor]

But what if a university was to teach you to think critically about the world around you? Why do things happen etc, rather than regurgitating facts and figures. Would that person not be more intelligent?



BAs are boring, heh.

nope, intelligence is self taught. education is taught.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Its a funny question, and made me think a bit.

Here is my take on it: What a degree does (or should) give you is a toolbox: a way of thinking about things, trains you to actually think about things in fact, and a broader reference frame than you might otherwise have, plus exposure to a lot of interesting shit you would not pick up on your own. I tend to think of it as a "bullshit filter": if you have a set of tools, you can examine something, and come to your own decision about it, rather than being led by some slick fucker in a $300 dollar suit with white shoes and a diamond tooth. I did law, so maybe your results may vary: but the principle is or should be able to carry across the disciplines.

By the way, I am talking about proper Universities, none of your wanangas, and aromatherapy colleges or any of that malarkey.

Having said that, one of the best critical thinkers I know went to University for about three weeks then went out and got a job. And my brother is a tradesman (own business) who seems to be earning craploads more than me at present, and he left school at 15 to go work as a joiner. Go figure.

[HenryDorsetCase]

The "University of life" thing is utter bullshit. The "University of life" is often used as an excuse for parochial ignorance, while anyone who claims that their university education makes them better than anyone else deserves to go to heaven when they die and be confined to socialising with CEOs.

Oh come on, thats just bloody cruel!

[Steam]

But what if a university was to teach you to think critically about the world around you? Why do things happen etc, ...

...my problem is with the customer service people with Degrees and huge debt!

At the risk of being savaged by Mom, that's me, I'm a customer service person with a degree AND a post grad diploma. And debt, of course. But only $10k or so. What's it to you? Hmmm?

I did my Philosophy degree for the reasons Magua said, because I was really interested in the world and ideas and shit. Interested in answering the big questions. I learned a hell of a lot about... well, philosophy. How the world works beneath it all.
How to think critically and analytically. A million and one arguments for and against the existence of God.
I didn't find the answers to any of those big fundamental questions but I spent four years with my brain on fire (no it wasn't just the drugs).
I would definitely do it all again, maybe stay in uni and become an academic like Aunty Helen.

Right now I'm in a service job earning only a little more than minimum wage, quite enjoying it, just cruisin'... but also talking theology and ontology and teleology and other shit with people who like the same stuff.

Uni good. Gives you the big picture about the world we live in.
That kind of insight into the development of western civilisation and the history of ideas and politics, that's not a course offered in the University of Life.

That's just what I like, personally.

[MacD]

Err, how about the people who enjoy study, do it because it's fun and a personal challenge? Why does a degree have to be regarded as an open and shut experience? Why did we let Universities become corporate training institutions? They're supposed to be about people sharing ideas within frameworks that encourage openness. Ban MBAs and watch the calibre of universities go up.

You might be interested in reading "Crisis of Identity", which challenges the current corporatisation of Universities.

As was pointed out earlier, experience and education are not mutually exclusive. So called mature students often contribute the most to, and get the most out of tertiary study, whether it's work-related, or purely for interest's sake.

[The Pastor]

tis my point also, followed by


some people dont need to be taught in order to learn

thats called intelligence, there is a difference from education,

Personally I hate uni, but have to go in order to get the money (engineering)

[Curious_AJ]

I only voted for the last option coz none of the others really applied. I think it depends. I don't think it makes you smarter, it just means that you have undergone classes to achieve a degree to put at the end of your name. Also, it depends what you're wanting to do, for example, 6 months practical for a vet nursing certificate or diploma would be more than enough. yet to be qualified you have to do a year or 2 year long course even though half the content doesnt apply to anything. (though thats not really a degree, but you CAN do a degree in nursing if you really want to..)

I'm babbling

[Toaster]

my problem is with the customer service people

Me too..... For starters many in my view can't do basic maths without a calculator, can't spell or write... they just print.

Now you got me started.... I hate it when I walk into a clothing shop or similar (and that is very rare) and the young assistants just sit on their stools or lean on a wall texting dribble to their boyfriends and girlfriends...

....um, hello, you are employed to get off your lazy arse and serve, talk to, engage potential customers and see if you can increase sales for your employer... you know the one that pays you a wage to actually work rather than just turn up and expect to get paid!!

Okay Mr Grumpy is going to bed now.

[Bullitt]

So called mature students often contribute the most to, and get the most out of tertiary study, whether it's work-related, or purely for interest's sake.

While Mature students do tend to be more active in tutorials and lectures I dont know whether non-mature students would necessarily share you enthusiasm.

Particularly with regard to group projects where mature students are often very inflexible with available hours.

Plus their contributions in other areas are not always appreciated. (I didnt personally mind but I know a lot of people who have had that view)

[MotoGirl]

A very interesting topic Mom!

I had this all typed out and damn KB logged me out so I lost it Unfortunately, you get the uncut version 'cause I can't be naffed redoing it nicely

So what's my stance then? I reckon a degree is completely unnecessary if you've got a mouth and you're capable of selling yourself to a prospective employer.

I left school three times and I didn't get Sixth Form Certificate until I was almost 20. By this time, my school friends were completing their second year at uni. I should mention that all of my friends were extremely academic and one was the dux of the school and scored three scholarships for uni. I always felt inadequate compared to them...

By the time I was 21, I'd managed to talk my way into a software development company - without a degree. I worked my arse off, climbed the corporate ladder, and almost trebbled my salary. By 23 I owned a brand new motorbike, a nice car, and my first house. Meanwhile, my friends had just finished their degrees and were looking for jobs to pay off those horrendous student loans.

I'm now late-20s (ish) and settled in my career. The friend who was dux of the school also works in Tauranga. Funnily enough, she's a BA for a software development company, which is the same job title I've got.

Humour me if you will; what did she achieve that I haven't already got?

[Luckylegs]

I still get a perverse satisfaction from my first job where I worked for Income Support and seeing the "high achievers" I went to school with (having completed their studies) coming in applying for the Unemployment Benefit.

Not sure wether this was because they generally found that there degree didnt get em shit (read: a job) or whether they still had their heads up their ass's and thought they were better than the job offers (read entry level positions) were indicating...

<...Vigorous brushing complete, Chip still evident>

[boomer]

All I see in this thread are people with chips on their shoulders and the misapprehension that a "career" is somehow important.

Err, how about the people who enjoy study, do it because it's fun and a personal challenge? Why does a degree have to be regarded as an open and shut experience? Why did we let Universities become corporate training institutions? They're supposed to be about people sharing ideas within frameworks that encourage openness. Ban MBAs and watch the calibre of universities go up.

The "University of life" thing is utter bullshit. The "University of life" is often used as an excuse for parochial ignorance, while anyone who claims that their university education makes them better than anyone else deserves to go to heaven when they die and be confined to socialising with CEOs.

degree fan bouy by chance?

hey.. horses for courses; and i learnt the hard way, that corporate life and having a supposed career aint all its cracked upto be .. by everyone else.
I chased that dream for 15 years and now i'm pondering on what i'm really here to be..not do.

still. what ever tickles ya fancy huh. I just disagree with the comment that having a degree means someone is more educated, intelligent or will get them further in life.


I was lucky enough to have later education paid for by work and when submitting papers i had my tutor fail me because i'd achieved something in a manner he wasn't familiar with. it worked, but not the way he prescribed.

My experience of academics, especially lecturers, is they're short of experience in the real world.

[MacD]

While Mature students do tend to be more active in tutorials and lectures I dont know whether non-mature students would necessarily share you enthusiasm.

Only because they often challenge the other students' world views and maybe want to get on with the assignment now, when they have time, rather than leaving it to the last moment or asking for an extension from the lecturer!