Wire (cheese cutter) barriers

**bert_is_evil** · 25th October 2007, 16:30

Gareth and Jo Morgan?

**Colapop** · 25th October 2007, 16:32

Done for Wellington - here

***caution*** · 25th October 2007, 16:54

Anyone notice that on Auckklands northen motorway where they are doing all the construction for the bus way there is hundreds of meters of concrete dividers down both sides of the south bound lanes!! tThese could be used to replace the cheese grater down the middle, though i think they are probabley owned by Fletcher construction and they are just being used while constructions on, But it'll be a shocker if the busway ends up with concrete all around it (how its looking) while the motorway has the shitty wire cheese grater down the middle?!?

**rwh** · 25th October 2007, 17:09

Originally Posted by Ocean1

Bendon underwear?

I foresee a problem with target fixation ...

Richard

**DougieNZ** · 25th October 2007, 20:10

A few thoughts

I think this campaign is a damn fine idea. I have always worried about them. There is no doubt that there is huge capacity for them to injure/kill/maim motorcyclist WHATEVER speed they are travelling.

There is no doubt that to win this campaign we have to move the hearts and minds of the general public. So a few questions:

Should we be using the term "Cheese Cutters"?

In my opinion, no. No one in the car driving general public would have the first clue about what we are talking about. the term "Wire Rope Barrier" should be used in all press releases/statements - in my opinion.

Now a harder one:

Is the use of the latest tragedy for the campaign going to help us?

I well know that this was a tragic accident that resulted in a horrific loss. It is well out there in the media (like it or not) that a statement from the police mentions a speed "in excess of 150 km/h". So, with that in mind - how are we going to get the public to see that speed was not a factor and that the Wire Rope Barrier was? I know we believe it was, in fact I buy in to the argument that the chances would have been better of survival with a concrete barrier. However, are we going to win the hearts and minds of Joe Public by using this paticular case?

Anyway, I look forward to joining any protest ride that is organised.

**car** · 25th October 2007, 21:57

Originally Posted by DougieNZ

Should we be using the term "Cheese Cutters"?

In my opinion, no. No one in the car driving general public would have the first clue about what we are talking about. the term "Wire Rope Barrier" should be used in all press releases/statements - in my opinion.

Not only is the name confusing to those not in the know, but it risks obscuring the issue -- consensus seems to be that the wires look dangerous, but the posts are the greater risk. Complaining about "cheese cutters" opens the floor for every man and his dog to insist that the complaint isn't valid because the "cheese-cutting" action isn't the problem.

**motorbyclist** · 25th October 2007, 22:20

Originally Posted by Pixie

A link showing possible modifications to WRBs

http://www.fema.ridersrights.org/cra...ier/index.html

"Concrete walls also have the property to prevent heavy vehicles from crossing into the opposing traffic lane. As a consequence they are often used on central reserves, or where there is no room for a metal barrier to deform."

and transit says the wire barriers need less room than the concrete ones!

as for "the campaign", i've notice on the port offramp the "w" section guards that normally have big wide bits of wood behind them have "I" section steel posts.

perhaps we should ditch the catchphrase "cheese wires" and stop asking for anything as extreme as banning their use, but focus more on getting plastic sheets along the exposed posts of all barriers.... the wood ones aren't so bad as they have a reasonable surface area and aren't going to chop off limbs.

**swbarnett** · 25th October 2007, 22:36

Originally Posted by DougieNZ

Should we be using the term "Cheese Cutters"?

Provided the connection to WRSBs is made clear the "Cheese Cutter" term is more emotive and illustrates the potential effect on motorcyclists.

Originally Posted by DougieNZ

Is the use of the latest tragedy for the campaign going to help us?

We just have to make it clear to people that the speed was largely irrelevant to Dan's survival. No other type of barrier would've cut him in half giving him zero chance.

Also, there are other incidents around the world. For example, there was a decapitation by WRSB after a rider was knocked off by a ladder that fell of the ute in front of them near Sydney.

**jafar** · 25th October 2007, 22:42

Originally Posted by DougieNZ

Is the use of the latest tragedy for the campaign going to help us?

I well know that this was a tragic accident that resulted in a horrific loss. It is well out there in the media (like it or not) that a statement from the police mentions a speed "in excess of 150 km/h". So, with that in mind - how are we going to get the public to see that speed was not a factor and that the Wire Rope Barrier was? I know we believe it was, in fact I buy in to the argument that the chances would have been better of survival with a concrete barrier. However, are we going to win the hearts and minds of Joe Public by using this paticular case?

Anyway, I look forward to joining any protest ride that is organised.

I agree with you , the crash has galvanised us all into action of one kind or another, but as far as publicity it has done bikers no favours with the general public.
Any public statement claiming 'speed' was not a factor would be unwise especially as the police have already stated speed was indeed a factor.
I have to travel over the crash scene every day as do thousands of others, the police were kind enough to mark with white paint the impact point & where each little piece of the wreckage was found. It is a macabre reminder to us all of what can happen. The police estimate of "in excess of 150k" is in all probability conservative.
As other have stated these barriers are dangerous @ 'legal speeds' . This should be the focus of our efforts.

**Drum** · 25th October 2007, 22:43

Originally Posted by motorbyclist

......as for "the campaign", i've notice on the port offramp the "w" section guards that normally have big wide bits of wood behind them have "I" section steel posts......

The holes for the wooden posts cannot be bored into concrete, hence where the barrier is located on a bridge, or other concrete structure, steel posts are bolted to the concrete.

**Drum** · 25th October 2007, 22:45

Originally Posted by motorbyclist

.... the wood ones aren't so bad as they have a reasonable surface area and aren't going to chop off limbs.

Rider got decapitated by one near Wellington Street overpass back in 2000.

**EJK** · 25th October 2007, 22:48

crikey... thats nasty

**motorbyclist** · 25th October 2007, 22:49

well i didn't say they were safe!

and i heard dan's bike broke (ie, chassis), causing the crash... anyone want to confirm/contest the rumour?

**Zapf** · 26th October 2007, 02:21

Originally Posted by DougieNZ

A few thoughts

So a few questions:

Should we be using the term "Cheese Cutters"?

In my opinion, no. No one in the car driving general public would have the first clue about what we are talking about. the term "Wire Rope Barrier" should be used in all press releases/statements - in my opinion.

Now a harder one:

Is the use of the latest tragedy for the campaign going to help us?

I well know that this was a tragic accident that resulted in a horrific loss. It is well out there in the media (like it or not) that a statement from the police mentions a speed "in excess of 150 km/h". So, with that in mind - how are we going to get the public to see that speed was not a factor and that the Wire Rope Barrier was? I know we believe it was, in fact I buy in to the argument that the chances would have been better of survival with a concrete barrier. However, are we going to win the hearts and minds of Joe Public by using this paticular case?

Anyway, I look forward to joining any protest ride that is organised.

The media has carried the term cheese cutter, and you will be surprised at how many people have know about this. In lack of other "words" this maybe the best one to use. Better suggestions?

Originally Posted by jafar

I agree with you , the crash has galvanised us all into action of one kind or another, but as far as publicity it has done bikers no favours with the general public.
Any public statement claiming 'speed' was not a factor would be unwise especially as the police have already stated speed was indeed a factor.
I have to travel over the crash scene every day as do thousands of others, the police were kind enough to mark with white paint the impact point & where each little piece of the wreckage was found. It is a macabre reminder to us all of what can happen. The police estimate of "in excess of 150k" is in all probability conservative.
As other have stated these barriers are dangerous @ 'legal speeds' . This should be the focus of our efforts.

For the record, the police has not complete the investigations. I suspect they are basing off my approximate estimation in my statement to them for their estimate. (I was the single witness to the incident)