Trying to give NZ a fair go...

[BIGBOSSMAN]

Thats not right bro, i'm earning a huge wedge contracting

Huge wedge? Contracting? Diseases? Must be one of those STD drug guinea pigs eh bro!!

[homer]

maybe you should go door knocking instead of applying
its works 10 times more often and you can find out about different jobs in the process.
personally i believe the best way to get jobs is word of mouth and door knocking .
I gave up applying for jobs a long time ago
I found work in south west sydney in 4 days and had turned down 2 jobs
All by phone and foot
Its a piece of cake !

[Coyote]

I'd imagine the Gen Y'ers (or whatever we're up to) are in for some rude shocks. They all seem to think they're really important and should be paid shitloads.

Yep, most people I know say "when I'm rich....". Apparently my year group is caught between generations X and Y.

I'm an exception (being bleak minded) and don't expect everything to be given to me but I still have the hope of starting some garage based (to begin with) custom bike parts business. Mind you that's still thinking along the lines of 'when I grow up, I'll become an astronaut!' but it's not too unrealistic I'd like to think, especially if I made it a hobby to begin with.

[boomer]

Huge wedge? Contracting? Diseases? Must be one of those STD drug guinea pigs eh bro!!

nah, i'm just a mouse

[Solarwind]

One piece of advice I can offer is, don't be afraid to move. Not necessarily to another country, though. I moved from Hamilton to Taupo for my first full-time job, I landed it pretty much straight out of uni with no industry experience because there was such a shortage of suitable people in Taupo. The job had been advertised for 6 weeks by the time I even applied for it. Still working at that job after four and a half years, and we've been gradually sending all our competitors in Taupo out of business... heh. Four years of industry experience is worth 10x more than the four years I spent at university getting my degree. I don't think people really appreciate degrees in NZ and in hindsight I wouldn't have bothered.

[BAD DAD]

Again, "Well paid" is quite a personal concept though 40k in my opinion is not "well paid". I do agree with you that a person needs to work their way up and be realistic.

In my mid/late 40's now and have never earned more than about $42K per annum ever, but have had plenty of opportunities to do so by getting my foot in the door first. If your worth it, it won't take long for someone to grab you. Seen plenty of youngsters start off in humble positions, then quickly roar off up the ladder because they had ambition, commitment and work ethic to match. Me, I've never been career oriented enough to take all the opportunities offered. Anyway $40K ain't that bad, paying 25% or more of it in income tax.....that is bad.
Goog luck man

[Sanx]

nah, i'm just hung like a mouse

The first step to dealing with it is admitting it, mate.

[Macstar]

maybe you should go door knocking instead of applying
its works 10 times more often and you can find out about different jobs in the process.
personally i believe the best way to get jobs is word of mouth and door knocking

Yeah, door knocking / cold canvasing is on the cards for next week.

One piece of advice I can offer is, don't be afraid to move. business...

How's the bike riding in Taupo come winter? Not a big fan of the cold....

In my mid/late 40's now and have never earned more than about $42K per annum ever... Good luck man

Thanks mate. You must be good at budgeting then to have such a late model Trumpy!!

[avgas]

Seems to be these days...(compared with 40 yrs ago..) BA = equivalent of leaving school in Form 5, MA = Form 6 with UE, and PhD = Bachelors degree.
- then you need the job experience.
Without spending years getting a piece of paper which is often, essentially meaningless, you don't even get the chance of a reply to an application.
Thank god I'm old - it all seemed less complicated, back in the '60's.
"Can you do the job?" "Shit yeah!" " You're on!"

Too be honest its comments like this that just tell me whenever grads ask me about work in NZ....i tell them to go elsewhere.
While i do understand your meaning of the lack of manpower in a degree - telling a grad that you won't hire them because they got one is like holding the wrong edge of a knife.
I think it is more valid to judge the person rather than the paper.
I had all sorts of issues with a guy recently at work, he had been on the tools for 20 years, but we took him out of his comfort zone with a simple form where all he had to do is sign his name next to the tasks he was completing. He quit after 2 weeks. Which was good for me, even though i had to do all his work as well as mine.....my workload still halved.
Lazyness/detemination is what determines someone who has learnt something over a 4-6 year period, rather than titles.
Lazy people can also appear as workers, not just students.

[SPman]

Lazy people can also appear as workers, not just students.

Undoubtedly.
I do think many people hold false expectations as to what a degree will do for them. I quite like Bob Jones comment, that he preferred graduates with a BA in Philosophy and History - not because of what they learnt, but,to get the degree the person should be able to think and reason.
If you go out into the workforce, initially, with over high expectations, just because you have a degree, you will generally be sorely disapointed. A lot of grads don't seem to realise, it is only the basic training. The "fleshing out" starts once you get a job.

In my own case, I dropped out of Uni and became a Carpenter (Advanced Trade Cert.). After 20 odd years I retrained as a Quantity Surveyor. Even with my experience in the building trade, it still took a couple of years before I really got the hang of the job, even though I thought it would be a doddle. I then became a Building Inspector and once again, It took 15 months or so before I became comfortably competent in the job.
Knowing the theory is one thing - putting it into effective application, is quite another matter

I think it is more valid to judge the person rather than the paper.

That is, I think, what it comes down to. A person with the right attitude will always win out.

[Macstar]

Before I got a degree, I also used to rather ignorantly bag university cause it made me feel better for not having ever attended and cause I thought I knew more (being an employed worker) doing the 'real thing', rather than students who just seemed to read about it.

Generally speaking, you'll find the people that diss university are the ones that have never been, or did but dropped out and therefore such comments are speculative and unjust.

Getting through a uni degree is not easy which is why in NZ less than half of people who commence tertiary education never complete it. I personally achieved an A grade average and worked my ass off (I put in more hours a week into studying than the average worker would at their job).

Sure, I learnt theories, techniques, facts etc. but in university, I LEARNT HOW TO LEARN.

Simplistically speaking, when I finally get a chance to rejoin the workforce in a professional capacity (i.e. valued for what I am capable of), I will not have the practical skills of someone who has been in the game for the same time that I was studying for. But, hopefully, I will be able to catch up to that person's level quickly, by learning what he or she learnt faster than him/her.

I will also not be subject (in my opinion) to the same glass ceiling that I experienced in the workforce when I didn't have a degree.

NOW GIVE ME A JOB DAMN IT!