Bradford Bitch gets her first conviction.

[devnull]

It goes without saying that the choices that we make in bring up our children are based on our moral values. It has nothing to do with the values of any statistical poll of either the majority or minority. I don't believe that inflicting pain by way of 'smack' is a good choice for the child. Ask any child if they like having pain inflicted on them. The choice in such cases are for expediency and convenience of the parent. When pain is inflicted in such circumstances and for that reason I will argue that that is a bad choice. There are other areas where the state makes decisions on bringing up children. One is the time that parents must begin to allow the child to be educated. New Zealand was one of the first countries in the world to bring in legislation so that this could happen. There have been cases in the past where parents have refused lifesaving blood transfusions. The state by way of court decisions have administered these measures.

I think you need to sit down and think if you opposition to Bradford's bill is based on what you believe:in that the Government is trying to tell you how to bring up your children or if your opposition is based on a political opinion of either Bradford, or Labour or both. Remember that National also voted for this legislation. It's here to stay. Deal with it.

Skyryder

Actually, the petition for a referendum is currently at 220,000 votes. 80,000 to go...

So what you're saying here is that all parents should adhere to your personal beliefs? Even though there is no data to support your point of view, but there's a lot that refutes it?

You may not believe that a smack is never warranted, but time & time again that belief is proved wrong. The latest being the Otago Uni study published in 2006.

There have also been studies published in the UK, Europe & the US, so it's not as though only 1 psych study disagrees with you. They all do, bar 1.
That one is the paper written by Joan Durrant, who was widely criticised for manipulating data to meet preconceived conclusions.

So is there ANY empirical evidence you can point to and say "See? That proves I'm right"?

The removal of corporal punishment in schools was also done on the sly. It was a last minute addition to the education bill - no consultation with any school was done. (Incidentally, UK parents want it re-instated there - they are appalled at what the school system has deteriorated to)

I spoke to a woman who's been teaching for 35 years, who was saying that the levels of behaviour in school is the worst she's ever seen. She had decided to leave the profession because of it.

[Grahameeboy]

Actually, the petition for a referendum is currently at 220,000 votes. 80,000 to go...

So what you're saying here is that all parents should adhere to your personal beliefs? Even though there is no data to support your point of view, but there's a lot that refutes it?

You may not believe that a smack is never warranted, but time & time again that belief is proved wrong. The latest being the Otago Uni study published in 2006.

There have also been studies published in the UK, Europe & the US, so it's not as though only 1 psych study disagrees with you. They all do, bar 1.
That one is the paper written by Joan Durrant, who was widely criticised for manipulating data to meet preconceived conclusions.

So is there ANY empirical evidence you can point to and say "See? That proves I'm right"?

The removal of corporal punishment in schools was also done on the sly. It was a last minute addition to the education bill - no consultation with any school was done. (Incidentally, UK parents want it re-instated there - they are appalled at what the school system has deteriorated to)

I spoke to a woman who's been teaching for 35 years, who was saying that the levels of behaviour in school is the worst she's ever seen. She had decided to leave the profession because of it.

I think Skyryder is right........are parents thinking of the kids or themselves......you know anything for a quiet life

That women, just 1 view and I am sure that in her 35 years of teaching, so lets say she is around 60, things have changed....thats life. Doesn't mean that the lack of corporal punishment is the reason.

[tri boy]

[QUOTE=devnull;1310387]Actually, the petition for a referendum is currently at 220,000 votes. 80,000 to go...

Where can I get my nasty violent hands on this petition?
At least once in my life I want to "strike a blow" for common sense.
90%-10% on this little poll is stating the obvious. This law is a crock.
Yeah, I know, the poll is a poor example of proper professional systems.....Blah, blah blah.....
But what a result so far.
Shame that very experienced teacher is leaving the system. Bet she is the old school type who controlled her class, and had heaps of respect from students and colleagues alike.
Don't sweat the result Skyrider. You can always head into sth Auckland, and start fixing up the mess there with your softly softly approach. I'm sure the local coppa's could use a good laugh. (Take some bandages, your going to need them.....for yourself).

[tri boy]

[QUOTE=Grahameeboy;1310391]I think Skyryder is right........are parents thinking of the kids or themselves......you know anything for a quiet life

It will be a very quiet life for many parents who lose their kids to Drownings/Burns/Bouncing off cars/Falling down steep rugged cliffs etc
Wake up man.
I'm not even going near the trouble of undisciplined little shits causing trouble on roads, in parks, in private houses.
Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child. (I bet you hate that saying). Truth hurts some times even for guys like you. I truly hope your family isn't attacked by a group of undisciplined arseholes that tear your comfy home to bits.
Thats when it might kick in mate.

[Grahameeboy]

[QUOTE=tri boy;1310428]

I think Skyryder is right........are parents thinking of the kids or themselves......you know anything for a quiet life

It will be a very quiet life for many parents who lose their kids to Drownings/Burns/Bouncing off cars/Falling down steep rugged cliffs etc
Wake up man.

What's that got to do with the anti smacking Law?

I'm not even going near the trouble of undisciplined little shits causing trouble on roads, in parks, in private houses.

Discipline does not required smacking


Spare the Rod, Spoil the Child. (I bet you hate that saying). Truth hurts some times even for guys like you.

So what kinda guy I am I?


I truly hope your family isn't attacked by a group of undisciplined arseholes that tear your comfy home to bits.

Thanks for your friendly thoughts.............sorry you feel you have to say that

Thats when it might kick in mate.

Yeah, I mean I have led such a sheltered life..............life ain't perfect, shit happens, it's dealt with.

..................

[devnull]

Where can I get my nasty violent hands on this petition?
At least once in my life I want to "strike a blow" for common sense.
90%-10% on this little poll is stating the obvious. This law is a crock.
Yeah, I know, the poll is a poor example of proper professional systems.....Blah, blah blah.....
But what a result so far.
Shame that very experienced teacher is leaving the system. Bet she is the old school type who controlled her class, and had heaps of respect from students and colleagues alike.
Don't sweat the result Skyrider. You can always head into sth Auckland, and start fixing up the mess there with your softly softly approach. I'm sure the local coppa's could use a good laugh. (Take some bandages, your going to need them.....for yourself).

http://www.unityforliberty.net.nz/petition.html

[devnull]

I think Skyryder is right........are parents thinking of the kids or themselves......you know anything for a quiet life

That women, just 1 view and I am sure that in her 35 years of teaching, so lets say she is around 60, things have changed....thats life. Doesn't mean that the lack of corporal punishment is the reason.

How about answering the questions I Skyrider asked then?
On what do you base your belief?

Do you have ANY empirical evidence whatsoever that supports your position?

When this became an issue last year, I read huge amounts of info that showed that this was wrong - and as I said there was only one paper that supported Bradford. Even then, the statistics she claimed were proved false by the country the paper was written about.

So please, cite some real evidence that you are right and everyone else in the world is wrong

[MSTRS:Me]

..........life ain't perfect, shit happens, it's dealt with..........

Yep, and sometimes that is best done with a quick smack...

[Grahameeboy]

Taken from the Unity Site

The degree of family breakdown in New Zealand society is evident by the increasing number of brutal child abuse cases that are coming before the courts. There are many reasons for the current level of family dysfunction in New Zealand, but much of it flows from government policy established by the current political leaders. a rampant welfarism and laws that undermine parental authority have worked to dissolve the family unit. We now find ourselves in the ludicrous situation where the same political leaders and public servants, such as Cindy Kiro, are backing harsher sentences for child abuse.

Blame someone else again.

Unity for Liberty sympathizes with those calling for harsher penalties but warns of the danger that now exists where under the current situation good parents are not protected by law. This will mean that the family unit will be further eroded by zealous government staff. It will require more than hype and hysteria to change this situation and turn our society from total disaster. We need laws that will protect and honour the roll of good parents in raising their children. We need to adopt policy that encourages and protects the family unit.

Bold: How so? Surely good parents will be protected and seen as good parents. What about bad parents.............nothing about protecting kids........it's an adult world run by Adults self interest........be it Govt or Laypeople.

So far it seems that the good parents have not been prosecuted and the bad one has............

[Grahameeboy]

Yep, and sometimes that is best done with a quick smack...

Without physical harm or brusing......................

[Maha]

Without physical harm or brusing......................

Never did me any harm (did it?)....the odd canning at High Shcool, a Pool Que or a branch around the arse from Mum (as a kid) yeah i deserved it i guess, but i turned out alright didn't i?....

[MSTRS:Me]

Without physical harm or brusing......................

....just a fleeting stinging sensation, which is remembered next time (it is to be hoped) the recipient thinks of doing what led to the smack in the first place...

[Grahameeboy]

How about answering the questions I Skyrider asked then?
On what do you base your belief?

Do you have ANY empirical evidence whatsoever that supports your position?

When this became an issue last year, I read huge amounts of info that showed that this was wrong - and as I said there was only one paper that supported Bradford. Even then, the statistics she claimed were proved false by the country the paper was written about.

So please, cite some real evidence that you are right and everyone else in the world is wrong

It's funny how we are happy to cite science when it suits our argument.

I don't have any paper evidence.............Global warming had huge numbers of papers about doom and gloom and now the view is changing..............

I am just saying that I think that this Bill is being blown out of all proportion by those who do not agree with it. The UK have adopted a similar Bill.......

I just see a Bill that is trying to protect kids and everyone is worrying about parents and how society is doomed because of the Bill.

Right now I just don't buy into this........if I am mistaken then I am happy to accept that too................time will tell

[MSTRS:Me]

Never did me any harm (did it?)....the odd canning at High Shcool, a Pool Que or a branch around the arse from Mum (as a kid) yeah i deserved it i guess, but i turned out alright didn't i?....

Careful Mark. Don't give the anti-brigade any real ammunition...

[Grahameeboy]

....just a fleeting stinging sensation, which is remembered next time (it is to be hoped) the recipient thinks of doing what led to the smack in the first place...

I have no issue with that..............I have no doubt that is what you would do.....guess not all Dad's are like you and what they thing is just a sting ends up being more and this is the difference.