11/9 Self-Evident

[idleidolidyll]

If anyone disagrees with you, will you click "Report Post"?

(Yeah, go on, report this post...)

Nope, only if the post is off topic, threatening or abusive.

After all, others have done exactly that to me and I carry a number of points from moderators for what they consider wrongful posts. Tell me why I shouldn't act similarly since the mods tactics are pretty much worthless................

[imdying]

Wah, too much to read! Basically, the yanks got all they deserved... they've been sticking their nose into Arab business for too long, and eventually it got bitten off. Shame for them that the Arabs don't have the same sort of messed up ideals about how to run a war... which is another one of their problems... if you're going to go to war, do it properly... band the media, take all the big guns, and turn the place into glass. It's either worth having a decent war over or it's not.

[idleidolidyll]

Yup, thats the modus operadi! The difference between disagreement and abuse....

Then when there is real abuse and the report post is hit, people wonder why no one is there for support....

"cry wolf"

Sorry, back on topic, before this post is reported too

bullshit Joni and your post is an abuse of moderator privilege. If you are going to attack me for reporting abuse I suggest you come clean and do the same for all those who have reported abuse for similar posts.
To act as you have just done is totally dishonest and identifies you as a moderator not worthy of trust or respect.

and yes, given your connection with KB, this post WILL be reported

[ManDownUnder]

Judging an entire nation on the terrorism it has allowed its governments to project onto others for more than a hundred years is totally valid.

If the US is a democracy, they have a choice whether or not to support State Terrorism against tens of millions of foreigners. That they have supported this for over a hundred years condemns them absolutely.

The US is a democracy yes, but like New Zealand it's not 100% of the popluation supporting the govt or it's policies. Far from it in fact.

In NZ the least unpopular party has firsrt option on forming a govt with anyone it so chooses - unfettered by the "mere" wants of the voting public after the voting closes.

Far from ideal.

Then layer in the financial support of the various interest groups enabling and influencing policy. Why would an arms manufacturer not support a Govt whose domestic or foreign wages war on others... The French sold HW used to Gas the kurds but stood to gain through oil coming out of Iraq. Blood for oil ain't just a US thing. And to point and blame an individual nation is foolhardy.

Start focussing on the elite/rich/wealthy - those shareholders of Arms Manufacturers, Energy companies and the like who make serious dollars on the back of death and misery no matter where it raises it's ugly head.

[idleidolidyll]

Wah, too much to read! Basically, the yanks got all they deserved... they've been sticking their nose into Arab business for too long, and eventually it got bitten off. Shame for them that the Arabs don't have the same sort of messed up ideals about how to run a war... which is another one of their problems... if you're going to go to war, do it properly... band the media, take all the big guns, and turn the place into glass. It's either worth having a decent war over or it's not.

Yes, it is a lot to read but it details just how a nation like the USA has morphed into a fascist state. Given the crap often posted here about corporations and the way they act, it is useful to see exactly why the MIC (Military Industrial Complex) has so much power as an indicator to why the War in Iraq exists and who is profiting from it.

The USA and Britain have fucked the Middle East, Arabia and Persia over for more than a century. Of course those abused peoples would eventually bite back BECAUSE of the terrorism that the US and Britain inflicted on the people of the region.

As for your ideas of war; I hope human beings are over that kind of thinking within my lifetime.

[idleidolidyll]

The US is a democracy yes, but like New Zealand it's not 100% of the popluation supporting the govt or it's policies. Far from it in fact.

Actually I disagree. It's a shamocracy where electoral fraud is rampant, where money buys presidents and where the population is not represented by their governments unless that representation just happens to coincide with the desires of the moneyed.

In NZ the least unpopular party has firsrt option on forming a govt with anyone it so chooses - unfettered by the "mere" wants of the voting public after the voting closes.

Nothing is 'ideal' but coalitions at least represent the majority rather than systems like we had in the past with few choices and the likelihood of minority government. NZ has had governments where the 'winning' party got LESS votes than the beaten party.

Far from ideal.

Then layer in the financial support of the various interest groups enabling and influencing policy. Why would an arms manufacturer not support a Govt whose domestic or foreign wages war on others... The French sold HW used to Gas the kurds but stood to gain through oil coming out of Iraq. Blood for oil ain't just a US thing. And to point and blame an individual nation is foolhardy.

Yep, financial issues are one of the biggest issues and that's why I support Labours electoral reform bill even though it is flawed. National's hidden funding is likely to come from foreign and corporate interests and it is important for New Zealanders to know exactly who they are indebted to.
BTW: This thread is about the USA. I don't for a second think that the US is the only abuser but it is CERTAINLY one of the worst and because of that it is absolutely vital that it is exposed and the issues discussed. That is multiplied when we factor in the US veto in the Security Council and its ability to fuck up UN attempts to censure or punish abusive nations (The US has prevented the UN punishing Israel for its abuse of Palestinians for 60 years for example).
It is vital that we start to discuss all this openly and point out who the abusers are; particularly those abusers with massive military and political power.

Start focussing on the elite/rich/wealthy - those shareholders of Arms Manufacturers, Energy companies and the like who make serious dollars on the back of death and misery no matter where it raises it's ugly head.

I DO focus on the rich and wealthy. That is who pull the strings of the US Govt. Anyone who thinks that they have free choice in Yank elections has rocks in their head: they are presented with a number of acceptable choices that the powerful behind the scenes will allow to represent them (not the people).

So my point is this: Either the USA is a fascist oligarchy where the people are fucked over by successive abusive governments, or the people of the USA are ignorant, callous, inhuman people who don't deserve to be part of the human race because they allow mass slaughter in their names.

[Joni]

bullshit Joni and your post is an abuse of moderator privilege. If you are going to attack me for reporting abuse I suggest you come clean and do the same for all those who have reported abuse for similar posts.
To act as you have just done is totally dishonest and identifies you as a moderator not worthy of trust or respect.

and yes, given your connection with KB, this post WILL be reported

I genuinely think you need to stop taking yourself so seriously....

Would you mind explaining to me why my words are dishonest and and not trustworthy... I thought (read hoped) you would read into that... maybe if you only reported real abuse, the mods would actually start actually getting a grasp on the problems you seem to feel you have on KB.

However your paranoia makes you think you are always right and everyone is always out to get you or undermine you... I have said this before and I will say it again... I dont really care about you in the least, I would not bother undermining you... so maybe you should stop thinking I would...

And NO - for the record, this is not a post as a mod, Im talking to you as a person.... however I know you wont accept that as no one is allowed a personal opinion on here but you.

Fuck God bless the ignore function....

PS, top right, triangle with the exclamation mark.... go on, you know you want to!

[idleidolidyll]

The man demonised by the US is seeking the ability to be re-elected under a modified constitution.

Chavez has been democratically elected 5 times (i think) and was forced out of power in a coup by the rich elite of his country, Venezuela. The US supported the coup and the elite and have always attacked Chavez calling him a dictator etc.

That's incredibly ironic given that it is not clear whether Bush was even elected in the USA. The first time he was appointed by the Supreme Court and it seems erroneously because of electoral fraud. The second time vote rigging, digital election fraud and other crimes indicate that he was NOT elected by the majority but manipulated the electoral system to hold power. He has even called his own nations constitution "a goddamn piece of paper" in a signal that he is prepared to take power as an outright dictator if he thinks that is his best alternative. His stacked judiciary even agreed that he was the 'Unitary Leader' of the USA: Dictator by another name.

The USA is NOT a true democracy; it is a dictatorship controlled by the MIC, an oligarchy; the people of the US are ineffectual pawns. I hope they grow some balls in the near future and create a democracy in the US for the first time in more than 150 years.

[idleidolidyll]

I genuinely think you need to stop taking yourself so seriously....

Some people think certain issues are SERIOUS and those who abuse them just for posting those opinions are the issue not the originators.

Would you mind explaining to me why my words are dishonest and and not trustworthy... I thought (read hoped) you would read into that... maybe if you only reported real abuse, the mods would actually start actually getting a grasp on the problems you seem to feel you have on KB.

I already did. You attack me in public but you also know I have been penalised by yourself and other moderators for exactly the reasons I have reported others. That makes you a hypocrite and untrustworthy as a moderator IMO.
I've explained what the issues are with KB IMO. The secrecy is the main problem. It allows people to hide behind biased decisions and allows abusers to continue to abuse because until they get a certain number of points; nothing is seen to be done to them for their abuse.
These are not just MY problems as many pm's to me have indicated; they are emdemic

However your paranoia makes you think you are always right and everyone is always out to get you or undermine you... I have said this before and I will say it again... I dont really care about you in the least, I would not bother undermining you... so maybe you should stop thinking I would...

paranoia? more abuse? how childish.
It aint paranoid when it's a fact Joni.
I don't believe 'everyone is always out to get you or undermine you', that's your bullshit manipulation. What I see is continued abuse here BECAUSE the rules are ridiculous and invisible.

And NO - for the record, this is not a post as a mod, Im talking to you as a person.... however I know you wont accept that as no one is allowed a personal opinion on here but you.

If you are a moderator, all your posts must be viewed in that light. You moderators punish others for their indiscretions but seem able to get away with whatever bullshit you want.

Everyone is allowed a personal opinion and that's just more of your bullshit. What has been clear as indicated directly by a moderator pm to me, is that a number of mods WERE 'out to get me'. Those were the moderators words not mine.


Fuck God bless the ignore function....

Ignorance is bliss I guess, I prewfer the light.

PS, top right, triangle with the exclamation mark.... go on, you know you want to!

Yes, you have posted off topic abuse AGAIN and I WILL report it. Why the fuck should a moderator be able to do so when ordinary members are punished?

[Joni]

Re your comment about all I say being seen as a Mod and not as a person, let me quote another post you seem to have over looked:

Moderators are also site members with the same rights and privileges as all other members and will often post in a personal capacity. Moderators will generally make it clear when their posted comments are made in an official capacity and when they are not. If in doubt, members should assume that a Moderator has posted as a member, rather than as a Moderator.

So once again, this is being said in my PERSONAL capacity

[Grahameeboy]

Wah, too much to read! Basically, the yanks got all they deserved... they've been sticking their nose into Arab business for too long, and eventually it got bitten off. Shame for them that the Arabs don't have the same sort of messed up ideals about how to run a war... which is another one of their problems... if you're going to go to war, do it properly... band the media, take all the big guns, and turn the place into glass. It's either worth having a decent war over or it's not.

In one sense I agree that if the Yanks want to mess with the Arabs then they deserve some feedback, but what is forgotten (and by the Yanks) is that this was an attack on the World Trade Centre so from memory the significant proportion were not Yanks.

History shows that if you mess in the Middle East it will eventually bite you.

[Grahameeboy]

Re your comment about all I say being seen as a Mod and not as a person, let me quote another post you seem to have over looked:

So once again, this is being said in my PERSONAL capacity

That says it how it is...........Idle only seems to read and listen to what he wants............he neeeds a megga chill pill sometimes.

[terbang]

Sums it up well I reckon...

[Jantar]

This topic is supposedly about 11/9 (or 9/11) being self evident. So far there is very little on this topic in the whole thread. Plenty of anti-american hysteria, but almost nothing concerning 11/9. Please keep on topic or the whole thread goes to PD.

[idleidolidyll]

Re your comment about all I say being seen as a Mod and not as a person, let me quote another post you seem to have over looked:

So once again, this is being said in my PERSONAL capacity

so what?

as i suggested to a senior mod some time ago: moderators, as the people who enforce the rules, should be held to a higher standard.

he agreed

I'm carrying a number of points right now for 'taking the thread off topic'; you should be punished twice as hard given that you're a moderator. You should also receive higher points for the personal attack within the post.

that you commit these offences as a moderator makes you a hypocrite.

were you infracted?
we'll never know; the silly rules don't allow us to know if justice is being done.