Tourist on our roads

**sunhuntin** · 7th December 2007, 12:02

theyd find a way to lump them in with us

**steveb64** · 7th December 2007, 13:42

Originally Posted by Jim2

No Richard, actually it's worse than that. After driving overseas I can't believe the Police aren't allowed the option of roadside executions for the way at least half of all Kiwi road users drive.

I have little respect for the most of the people I'm forced to share the road with and I couldn't trust them to pull off what looks like a relatively simple task.

I'd have to agree with you on that one. That was the main thing the missus and I noticed after we got back from a couple of years offshore in Europe. Most Kiwi drivers drive like retards. Watching cars wait almost the full length of an empty straight before they pull out to overtake, just as the straight ends - into a near blind corner... Then there's the good old Kiwi overtaking lane race - where the toerag that's been doing 70-95 kph in the front of the queue for the last 10-20 k's suddenly floors it as the lane starts - and holds 120 k's until the end of it, then they slow back down to 70-95 again.

Or doing crazy last minute overtaking manouvers, only to turn off a couple of K's later - and they're maybe a hundred metres further ahead when they turn off...

And DON'T get me started on the 'wonderful' third world roads we have here... About the only part of Europe that has worse roads is Russia. And parts of Spain. And the bad bits of the Spanish roads were being repaired as fast as they could (at one point we saw a road works sign that said "Road Works 80km". It wasn't referring to the speed limit - but the length of the road works. And Yes - the WHOLE 80kms was ripped up and being rebuilt. ALL the way along. Quite awe inspiring after the shabby efforts we get here.

Sadly, I think the LTSA is largely to blame with their "If you don't teach them how to do it, then they won't put (get) themselves in a situation where they need to know how to do it" method of driver training. An example would be the driver training that Germans get versus their death rate of ~8 per 100,000 - compared to NZ's rate of ~11.5 per 100,000 (2003) - and our driver non-training.

Links to road deaths per capita:

http://www.driveandstayalive.com/inf..._1988-2001.htm

http://www.driveandstayalive.com/inf...apita-2003.htm

http://www.cemt.org/irtad/IRTADPUBLIC/we2.html

**Swoop** · 7th December 2007, 14:57

Originally Posted by JMemonic

...these tourists were in a hurry to complete their journey around NZ, I recall reading they were due to fly out not long after the accident,

Had been here for 3 weeks, so had experienced our roads quite safely in that time. Drifted to the left and over-corrected appears to be the cause.

Originally Posted by steveb64

And DON'T get me started on the 'wonderful' third world roads we have here... About the only part of Europe that has worse roads is Russia.

I beg to differ on that point. Having spent time on Soviet roads, they are made of concrete... unlike the "clay, with a dab of tarseal on top" that we have to maintain here.

**Mikkel** · 7th December 2007, 15:42

Originally Posted by Mikkel

Ok - I'm still pretty damn sure you'll find that the road toll on bikers due to tourists (from righthand driving countries) driving on the wrong side of the road is going to be extremely low. And no - the 4 people killed this weekend would not add to it I believe.

So rest easy and give those tourist a nice wave as you zoom by - be happy that they pop by and drop some foreign dough into the NZ coffers. Every buck they chuck in is one buck less the police has to rake in through speeding enforcement... (and yes, I am aware that this is in noway correct)

If you're gonna red rep - please do leave a name and make sure it's relevant for the post you rep. Thank you unknown repper...

Originally Posted by ?

no such thing as a zxr250rr it's not a fucking cbrrrrrrr it's a zxr250A...comprende.....red for being a closet honda ridor lol

**Lucy** · 7th December 2007, 15:52

Originally Posted by Mikkel

If you're gonna red rep - please do leave a name and make sure it's relevant for the post you rep. Thank you unknown repper...

Off topic - but I thought that all reps showed who it was from automatically?

**ManDownUnder** · 7th December 2007, 15:55

Originally Posted by rwh

I think unfortunately the best solution is for the remaining countries that drive on the left to switch to the right. It hurts my national pride to say that, but that's where I get from reason.

Richard

Either that (and no argument from me) or a test of sorts to prove someone is capable of driving on the other side of the road and understands the nuances of the giveway/yield rules, how the markings differ from country to country etc.

There's a little more to it than just staying on the other side of the road... but admittedly that is the bulk of it.

**Mikkel** · 7th December 2007, 16:01

NZ roads are honestly not THAT bad. You have to take into account how many sealed roads you've got compared to a fairly small population base! And some of the roads are not exactly built in the most easy and accessible places.

Oh also, you do roadworks at night in the cities. Denmark could learn a lot there!

Originally Posted by Lucy

Off topic - but I thought that all reps showed who it was from automatically?

It does when you become a senior member.

**oldguy** · 7th December 2007, 16:10

Originally Posted by Dave-

we cant just go around banning things or making them 'safer' every time someone dies on a motorcycle.

Never a truer word said, we chose to ride, knowing all the danger that may befall us, in some cases it is that element of danger that drives us.
If your numbers up its up, even riding in a safe manner is not going to help.

so enjoy every ride,

**steveb64** · 7th December 2007, 17:25

Originally Posted by Swoop

Snip'd

I beg to differ on that point. Having spent time on Soviet roads, they are made of concrete... unlike the "clay, with a dab of tarseal on top" that we have to maintain here.

Dunno when you were there - but I lived there for nearly two years in the mid 90's (based in Moscow, but project (USAID) had offices around the country) - and while some of the roads were good enough - the vast majority that I travelled over were shockers. Remember - this is Russia we're talking about here - half the cement for making the road base would be scammed off and sold during (or pre) construction, so the mix being poured would often be rather weak (often with little or no rock chip (builders mix?) in the mix either)... and the ground underneath is formed from glacial loess (dust and rock grindings), with no real stability to it - and no bedrock, so the ground there could move almost as much as it does here...
Basically the same reasons that would cause a building to collapse (or partially collapse) every now and again.

I don't ever recall thinking "This is a good road" in conjunction with Russian roads. Sure, some of the main roads in Moscow weren't too bad, but get out of Moscow, and see how fast they deteriorate... Even the motorways...

**Grahameeboy** · 7th December 2007, 17:34

Considering that NZ has one of the lowest average speed limits in the world the stats are not good and NZ is twice as bad as say the UK which has 4 times the population and higher average speed limits.

**JMemonic** · 7th December 2007, 22:04

Originally Posted by JMemonic

Perhaps part of the problem was these tourists were in a hurry to complete their journey around NZ, I recall reading they were due to fly out not long after the accident, also reading the story she admits she drifted to the left and over corrected, this is a terrible result of a panic situation.

Originally Posted by Swoop

Had been here for 3 weeks, so had experienced our roads quite safely in that time. Drifted to the left and over-corrected appears to be the cause.

Ok that was what I said, I miss your point

The Timaru Herald | Wednesday, 05 December 2007

Police are likely to lay charges after interviewing today the two Austrian tourists in the campervan that collided with a group of motorcycles near Fairlie on Sunday, killing four people.

The couple, aged in their 30s, were to have left New Zealand on Friday after a camping holiday, but it is expected their departure will be delayed.

Ok that is from the stuff sight, there was earlier story to the same effect that came out on the Monday after the crash, nowhere did I say that is was there was an inexperience issue, or an issue with tourists in general, which was my point.

**BarryG** · 8th December 2007, 02:53

One problem with tourists who normally drive on the right could be that in an emergency, they may naturally 'correct' the way they normally do when in their own country, which maybe puts them in the opposite direction of where they need to be on NZ roads.
Visiting NZ once a year, I have to be VERY aware of which side of the road I'm on for the first few days, which is not so difficult in the city, but outside on smaller roads and less traffic (to key off), I find that pulling out of a driveway or a t-junction definitely requires conscious thought.
That said, I do think the standard of driving in NZ not wonderful - the roads are narrow and winding, and it just seems like the average motorist isn't that aware of what's coming up, and doesn't allow for anybody else on the road. Not that NZ is different from anywhere else in the world, in that latter respect, if you think about it!
I've always thought that you should be required to spend two years on two wheels before you're allowed a car licence. But that idea never went over too well whenever I brought it up!
One day, when I am King...................................

RIP the victims.

Barry

**terbang** · 8th December 2007, 04:46

Yup, Im driving a rental in the USA right now. It does feel wierd and I even feel a bit strange about the handling and road positioning skills too sitting ovet there on the left. Certainly takes a bit more concentration at intersections and I also do agree that when faced with a heavy workload, we humans do tend to revert back to previously learned habits and it could be easy to mishandle a situation.

**Mikkel** · 8th December 2007, 10:53

Originally Posted by BarryG

One problem with tourists who normally drive on the right could be that in an emergency, they may naturally 'correct' the way they normally do when in their own country, which maybe puts them in the opposite direction of where they need to be on NZ roads.

Accidents happen so fast that I don't think that would have an impact at all if you're in the right lane to start out with.
In collisions it is very common to see people just locking up their brakes and doing nothing to steer away from trouble. Some places in NZ it would be better to steer into the oncoming lane to avoid a collision and other places it would be better to go off the road - however whether you're able to make that call when shit hits the fan is very much down to the individual drivers ability to react to unforeseen circumstances and doesn't rely much upon what side of the road you're used to travel on.

Having done the "switch" from left to right back and forth several times now I must say I find it easier and easier to do. However, yesterday when I went for gas while at a track day I caught myself going for the wrong lane coming out of the service station simply because my mind had been reset by running the track with no marked lanes. Oh, and as you say - there wasn't any traffic, I'm sure it wouldn't have happened at all if there had been. But still... an eyeopener.

**Pixie** · 9th December 2007, 09:56

Originally Posted by rwh

I think unfortunately the best solution is for the remaining countries that drive on the left to switch to the right. It hurts my national pride to say that, but that's where I get from reason.

Richard

What's national pride got to do with the side of the road you drive on?

The Swedes switched.
We wouldn't have to drive crap aussie cars.
And as kiwis can't pilot a car anyway, it wouldn't affect the road toll