Bikers collide with Police car in Buller Gorge (1 December)

[Laava]

Doesn't the road code say that you must be able to stop in half the visible clear road? Or something like that?

[Jantar]

Doesn't the road code say that you must be able to stop in half the visible clear road? Or something like that?

On an un-marked road (ie no center line) that is correct, otherwise the vehicle must be able to stop within the clear visible distance ahead. This is why the issue of whether or not the cop was moving is important; the lane may have been clear right up to the moment that a brightly decorated car appears from nowhere right across the lane.

We do not have enough information to say whether this is the case or not. We have not been given maps, drawings, measurements etc. Only the SCU have all this data, and that is why we must wait for their report. Up to that time we can only speculate.

[JimBob]

I have read most of this and i have 1 question and 1 answer.

Question

Officer said that the road was clear for his u turn wright but if you are on a blind bend how could he of seen that the road was clear. I mean if the bikes could not see him doing a uy how did the cop see if they where coming.

Answer it has been said they where traveling at 90/95. Is anyone able to tell us the speed limit for that road.

This is the crux of the matter. The scu will measure how far the officer could see at various stages. They will also come around that corner and measure distances to the car.
The officer may have had a clear say 120m up to the bend when he decided to turn and chase the speeder.
However by the time he slowed and actually started to make the turn he could be down to 60m. At that point it would still be clear. Look behind, look ahead, all clear, commence turn, Bang.
Perhaps he still had a mental picture of 120m because he was starting to think about how he was going to catch this bike through the gorge. Who knows, thats what the SCU is for.
Of course this is all speculation based on nothing, just more internet blathering

[MSTRS:Me]

Reportedly doing 90-95 around a blind corner.
Was this a reasonable and prudent speed to do around this particular corner?
Bearing in mind they obviously couldn't see very far around it.
So whether we like it or not, speed around this corner may have been a contributing factor even if it was within the speed limit.

The trouble with this bloody country is its always someones else's fault
just an observation

Of course each motorist has a duty of care etc...BUT...good motorcyclists tend to pick a (safe) speed and stick to it, in the assumption that the road is not blocked at a point currently out of sight. It can also be assumed that the highway with a 100kph limit will provide no real surprises. Familiarity with a particular road also comes into play. Perhaps these guys had been through this section several times that day (playing?) and 'knew' there were no issues to be encountered?

[rwh]

Of course each motorist has a duty of care etc...BUT...good motorcyclists tend to pick a (safe) speed and stick to it,

Sure, but how many of them are there?

in the assumption that the road is not blocked at a point currently out of sight.

Anyone relying on that assumption is, IMHO, mad. If you can't see it, you can't assume anything about it at all. A good motorcyclist relying on that assumption is an oxymoron.

It can also be assumed that the highway with a 100kph limit will provide no real surprises.

Pardon? The speed limit makes no claim that that speed is safe. And at best, obviously, it was appropriate when the sign was installed. I really hope you don't ride the highways on the assumption that nothing will surprise you.

Familiarity with a particular road also comes into play. Perhaps these guys had been through this section several times that day (playing?) and 'knew' there were no issues to be encountered?

I'm glad you put 'knew' in quotes to indicate that it's complete rubbish.

I agree, however, that familiarity is part of the problem. It's very easy to make such invalid assumptions if you've seen the road round the corner before.

Richard

[spudchucka]

What would have happened if there was a mob of cattle on the road?

[Ixion]

True. But might we not expect a police officer to make wiser and safer decisions than a herd of cattle? Any farmer will tell you that pigs are smarter than cows.

[MSTRS:Me]

I'm just speculating using theories that I know are common to most of us.
I'm not implying that they weren't paying attention any more than I imply that others doing the same would not be paying attention.
Using the same theory would explain why the cop proceeded with his turn, the assumption being he saw nothing coming and thought he had time to safely complete the manouevre.
No matter how much care or attention we are paying, there is always a certain amount of assumption.

[rwh]

True. But might we not expect a police officer to make wiser and safer decisions than a herd of cattle? Any farmer will tell you that pigs are smarter than cows.

Absolutely. It certainly sounds like the police officer made a mistake. I don't think I've seen anyone on this thread arguing with that.

But from the point of view of the motorcyclists, what's the difference? They came round the corner, the road was obstructed, and they failed to stop in time. They failed to stop in the amount of clear road ahead.

It's not nice to criticise a fallen biker, but with the amount of rubbish being spouted, the picture wasn't very balanced. Better to just not comment on their behaviour than to try and claim it was blameless.

Richard

[rwh]

I'm just speculating using theories that I know are common to most of us.
I'm not implying that they weren't paying attention any more than I imply that others doing the same would not be paying attention.
Using the same theory would explain why the cop proceeded with his turn, the assumption being he saw nothing coming and thought he had time to safely complete the manouevre.
No matter how much care or attention we are paying, there is always a certain amount of assumption.

I guess what you're saying is that they made an error of judgment, rather than deliberately riding round the corner knowing that they couldn't stop fast enough? I'd certainly agree with that, and I've probably made the same error many, many times and been lucky. Unfortunately that doesn't put either them, or me, in the clear.

Richard

[MSTRS:Me]

I guess what you're saying is that they made an error of judgment, rather than deliberately riding round the corner knowing that they couldn't stop fast enough? I'd certainly agree with that, and I've probably made the same error many, many times and been lucky. Unfortunately that doesn't put either them, or me, in the clear.

Richard

That is it exactly (there but for the grace of God......)

[puddytat]

To do that corner @ legal speeds is easy....if theres no one parked in the middle.
I know someone who has been known to do that stretch regularly a lot faster....depending on time of day,& the number of other road users. That weekend there were heaps of bikes out thru there ,& on the day in question I was at work @ the Swingbridge & we had a very busy day ...so I assume there was a lot of campervans & cars as well.Not really the sort of conditions you'd be inclined to speed in,& the cop should have been aware of the high number of road users on it

[Skyryder]

OK, so we've moved on to judging me personally now have we. That's all very interesting coming from someone that has never seen me work "out on the street". On KB all I'm doing is setting the ledger in balance, you can take heed or not, I don't care.

I seem to recall that you responded to one of my posts in reference to me being a 'looney.' If that's not a judgment call I don't know what is. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Skyryder

[SHELRACING]

To do that corner @ legal speeds is easy....if theres no one parked in the middle.
I know someone who has been known to do that stretch regularly a lot faster....depending on time of day,& the number of other road users. That weekend there were heaps of bikes out thru there ,& on the day in question I was at work @ the Swingbridge & we had a very busy day ...so I assume there was a lot of campervans & cars as well.Not really the sort of conditions you'd be inclined to speed in,& the cop should have been aware of the high number of road users on it

You have made a very valid point.

Maybe the officer had tunnel vision.... Ah! ha! a biker speeding, I got you, you aint gona get away, your mine!

My thought is he should have been more aware of road and traffic conditions before making a decision to U turn.
We expect that every driver on the road should think carefully before doing a manouvre like that on such a narrow busy road. Yet time after time, drivers fail to observe the basic common sense decisions. He made a serious error in judgement.

[Skyryder]

What would have happened if there was a mob of cattle on the road?

Do you really want me to answer that?? I could think of several that would imply more intelligence on the part of the cattle than the officer.


Skyryder