New Zealand Power (from Don't Vote Labour)

[k14]

Thanks Jantar, please feel free to chuck this is a new thread if you like.

I'm just trying to understand "Base Load" for my own understanding.

I assume Base Load means that you can't vary the output quickly? How does this vary from the Coal/Hydro etc that we have now? Can they instantly adjust for demand? And how could wind or solar adjust? Would we need enormous batteries to store power that was surplus when it was generated?

Personally, if nuclear wasn't a valid option, I'd favour tidal power, combined with solar at a household level.

Yes base load is exactly that, a quantity of energy that is always going to be consumed no matter what the situation. Since NZ has such a small industry base the power demand is very peaky, thus there is little or no room for genuine base load stations (eg nuclear). There is current some semi-base load generators but they get turned off from time to time. For instance the coal Huntly and gas Otahuhu and Stratford. They can't just go down to 10MW at the min period of demand (around 5am) and then up to max load (250 to 400MW) by 8am. They have a min load of around 100-200MW where they cannot go lower unless turned off. Once they're off they can take anywhere from 12 to 48 hours to be up to full load again.

There is a small amount of NZ hydro that is also base generation, eg the clutha scheme (Clyde and Roxburgh) because they have no capacity to store water over longer than approx 24 hours. The big schemes (Taupo and Waitaki) are able to store water for years if they choose, but its normally for 6-9 months.

You cannot store wind energy. Whereas all other forms of generation has to be forecasted and bidded into the market, wind can come and go as it pleases. Thus as soon as a wind farm gets a puff it can go from say 1MW to 100MW in 5 minutes. So in usual scenarios a nearby station (can be gas, hydro etc) will get backed off. So this is essentially storing the potential energy generation (gas or water) and all works fine and dandy so long as the gas pipeline of the thermal station or the head lake of the hydro station isn't already at its capacity. If it is then you are no better off from where you started. This is probable scenario of many of the proposed wind farms atm.

I think that the solar idea has its merits. Along with better power conservation techniques (we waste a boat load of power in poorly insulated homes etc) and we will be better off. That alone won't fix the problem though. Some major investment is required to do that.

[Ixion]

What about the aluminium smelter? That should be a decent base load ?

[k14]

What about the aluminium smelter? That should be a decent base load ?

Yeah its pretty much base load of 630MW 24/7 but it has virtually all its power supplied by Manapouri. At times they are slightly different but it is rare for Manapouri to be doing less than 400MW. Both Manapouri and Tiwai can nearly be taken out of the NZ system all together.

[sAsLEX]

I think that the solar idea has its merits. Along with better power conservation techniques (we waste a boat load of power in poorly insulated homes etc) and we will be better off. That alone won't fix the problem though. Some major investment is required to do that.

Better monitoring of power will also help maintain frequencies in times of high load.

AU is looking at each house having a little black box that allows an advanced form of ripple control so that the supplies/somone can turn off certain things such as appliance circuits but leave lighting etc to avoid blackouts

[Swoop]

Nuclear power is not suitable for New Zealand,

Disagree! Nuke is perfect because it will make the greenies apoplectic!!!

You north islanders better pray for a windy winter next year or you're gonna have 1 night a week in the dark

Every night of the week it is dark...
Are you that far south that daylight is 24hrs per day???

[Ixion]

Yeah its pretty much base load of 630MW 24/7 but it has virtually all its power supplied by Manapouri. At times they are slightly different but it is rare for Manapouri to be doing less than 400MW. Both Manapouri and Tiwai can nearly be taken out of the NZ system all together.

So, why could not the smelter be supplied from a nuke, and Manapouri (which is hydro and thus variable ? I think) be used for domestic demand?

[k14]

So, why could not the smelter be supplied from a nuke, and Manapouri (which is hydro and thus variable ? I think) be used for domestic demand?

Yeah thats a perfectly good idea but then you come to the NZ transmission system. To be honest, its a complete joke. We can't even get all the generation into the north island at the moment, let alone another up to 700MW of it.

The great majority of NZ generation is in the south island. The great majority of load is in the north island. Apart from being hugely inefficient, the NZ grid can't handle that. The power stations need to be built near the main load (Auckland) and not in the south island. You've probably seen how hard it is just to build a tiny transmission line from Whakamaru to Auckland so can probably see how hard it would be to build one all the way from the bottom of the SI.

[Mully]

Yes base load is exactly that, a quantity of energy that is always going to be consumed no matter what the situation.

Thanks for this. I can't bling you though.

[RiderInBlack]

The great majority of NZ generation is in the south island. The great majority of load is in the north island. Apart from being hugely inefficient, the NZ grid can't handle that. The power stations need to be built near the main load (Auckland) and not in the south island.

Sweet, I vote fa shifting Dorkland down ta SI ta be closer ta the power Stations then. Would solve the Habour Bridge trafic problem too

[skidMark]

this a pisstake?? nuc power is the esaiest/cheapest/eviromentally way forward...its redculass that NZders can't see this...but then it makes to much sence!!

are you critisizing uncle helens common sense....????

her logic is undeniable

hand my sum nanities


(iRobot n00bs)

[jtzzr]

Every night of the week it is dark...
Are you that far south that daylight is 24hrs per day???[/QUOTE]

[Grahameeboy]

Sweet, I vote fa shifting Dorkland down ta SI ta be closer ta the power Stations then. Would solve the Habour Bridge trafic problem too

What traffic problem?

[Colapop]

From what I've been told (by a person in Transpower) if all the areas in NZ that had enough wind (of the right speed, consistency etc) had wind turbines on them, then they would only generate enough power at full capacity to supply 10% of NZ's needs. There are currently two geothermal power plants being built with a 3rd to be built shortly thereafter. This is part of a proposal to build up to 10.

I understand that if only the smallest nuclear plant was built it would too big for NZ's needs. Is that correct Jantar or K14?

[Usarka]

Most countries on the planet have been experiencing extreme unpredicted weather patterns over the last couple of years.

Hey, lets put all our money on the fact that NZ is a windy place.....

[AllanB]

2020 - the government announce a new tax relief package:

All tax payers consuming more than 1kg of onions and facing west towards their local wind warm at 6pm each evening will be able to claim a 'wind allowance' on their tax return.