The Bum Steer

[Badjelly]

What I don't understand (and of course, cos I'm just a poor little bird brain female, yaddi yadda...blah, blah) is why you guys keep on arguing about something you all fundamentally seem to agree on in principal?

Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was, "Oh no, not again". Many people have speculated that if we knew exactly why the bowl of petunias had thought that we would know a lot more about the nature of the universe than we do now.

[Mikkel]

No it doesn't. The bikes with counter-rotating weights show this isn't true.

Stability derives from trail. If you don't accept this, try riding a bike with no trail and report back to us on the high speed stability.

You simply don't get it...

If you build a bike with counter-rotating weights and it performs like a normal bike then you've built it wrong. Period.

If you had tried riding one I'm sure you would agree!

I agreed that the trail is crucial for stability - OF THE STEERING GEOMETRY. If you don't have a trail then the wheel can turn too easily and you get into big trouble. However, the reason that you can not sit on your bike with your legs up without falling over if you're not moving is that there are no stabilisation from the gyroscopic forces.

You're saying that the gyroscopic forces have no influence upon the stability of a bike and that it's all to do with trail. Which is bullshit - just like saying that countersteering is the ONLY way to turn a bike...

Notice how there are no vectors for gyroscopic forces in your diagram?

Funny that.

Yes, it is extremely funny - it absolutely took me by surprise since I drew it less than an hour ago.
However, that's because the vector diagram illustrates how the forces work in "a steady state"(constant speed, constant lean angle, no body movement and on a flat surface) during cornering. At that point the rotational momentum of the wheels is irrelevant.

[007XX]

Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was, "Oh no, not again". Many people have speculated that if we knew exactly why the bowl of petunias had thought that we would know a lot more about the nature of the universe than we do now.

As a token of our appreciation, we hope you will enjoy the two thermonuclear missiles we've just sent to converge with your craft. To ensure ongoing quality of service, your death may be monitored for training purposes. Thank you.

[Ocean1]

Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was, "Oh no, not again". Many people have speculated that if we knew exactly why the bowl of petunias had thought that we would know a lot more about the nature of the universe than we do now.

As a token of our appreciation, we hope you will enjoy the two thermonuclear missiles we've just sent to converge with your craft. To ensure ongoing quality of service, your death may be monitored for training purposes. Thank you.

Out of the mouths of babes... (pauses to roll up tongue).
What we obviously have here is the effect of a local diurnal or sidereal anomaly, coexistent with anything bearing the name “BIKE”

This explains the beast in question’s total and wilful lack of compliance to the laws of real-world physics. It MAY also explain why an unusually large proportion of otherwise unrelated humans have two completely unrelated features in common. Bikers have all read and memorised THGTTG.

With luck further research will uncover the location of the substantial mass necessary to explain the BIG BANG theory, to wit: several large slices of cake. Stay tuned.

God moves in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform…

[Badjelly]

Out of the mouths of babes

Not me, mate. But 007XX, definitely.

[avgas]

bah, follow the front, drift the back.

[007XX]

What we obviously have here is the effect of a local diurnal or sidereal anomaly, coexistent with anything bearing the name “BIKE”

Especially if you got a Buell apparently... and THGTTG rocks!!!

Not me, mate. But 007XX, definitely.

Why you smooth talking bugger...shucks!


All kidding aside, I have often wondered if anyone was ever taught how to countersteer by having someone sit behind them as closely to them as possible, and act as a second rider?

Obviously in a secure area like a deserted carpark and not at great speed, but still it offers the possibility of giving a "feel" of the concept that words often make too complicated for someone new to riding.

[MSTRS:Me]

Cogito ergo inclino?

Ok, I'll go and have a cup of tea and a lie down now...

Get a room...
Anyway, where is it written that we can't argue yet still agree on the topique de jour??

[FROSTY:Me]

All kidding aside, I have often wondered if anyone was ever taught how to countersteer by having someone sit behind them as closely to them as possible, and act as a second rider?

Obviously in a secure area like a deserted carpark and not at great speed, but still it offers the possibility of giving a "feel" of the concept that words often make too complicated for someone new to riding.

You need to be at a certain speed before counter steering is really noticable.

[Ocean1]

All kidding aside, I have often wondered if anyone was ever taught how to countersteer by having someone sit behind them as closely to them as possible, and act as a second rider?

Now that you mention it, no.

But what the hell, in the name of science I'll let you sit close and teach me m'dear.

[Maha]

What we obviously have here is the effect of a local diurnal or sidereal anomaly, coexistent with anything bearing the name “BIKE”

WHAT?????.....

I calculated the compound interest of a parabolic Triangle and got the same answer......''BIKE''...!

[FROSTY:Me]

One thing I've learned and I thing is VERY important to realise is that when riding bikes there are NO apsolutes.
Some use heaps of body endlish some stay planted on the seat. Both get round the same corner.

[MSTRS:Me]

All kidding aside, I have often wondered if anyone was ever taught how to countersteer by having someone sit behind them as closely to them as possible, and act as a second rider?

Actually, that is a great idea. You're not really a woman, are you?
I have done just that, but just sitting on the bike, not moving. Simulating the correlation between push/lean...push harder/ lean more...feet on ground to stop the inevitable...works really well.

[007XX]

Get a room...
Anyway, where is it written that we can't argue yet still agree on the topique de jour??

You just wanna watch don't ya? Ya old perv...
*luv ya, just kiddin'...please don't beat me up! *

I was merely asking for maybe some thought to be spared for the morons like me who don't have the mental capacity to grasp such vertiginous concepts such as rotational cavitation or the wonders of Fluctuating capacitators, and was hoping for a more newbie friendly jargon, that all, sir...

Argument is healthy...makes for a great aftermath!

[MSTRS:Me]

One thing I've learned and I thing is VERY important to realise is that when riding bikes there are NO apsolutes.
Some use heaps of body endlish some stay planted on the seat. Both get round the same corner.

....usually.