Quick Turning Problem?

[moT]

Ok Heres a Question I know how countersterring works bla bla and you hang off with ur body as much as possible to get best turning and so on. I am haveing a few issues with this technique so if you dont know 100% for sure how to answer this plz dont try i dont want to hurt myself. So im in a corner leaning as much as i can, hanging off as much as i can. Going really hard and i want to "flick" the bike over into the next corner as fast as i can what is the best way to do this???

[onearmedbandit]

Are you sitting on the seat when trying to flick back over or hovering just above it?

[HDTboy]

Turn the bars with all of your might, with your weight on the peg which you want to go down.
The transition from the second left to the right coming up the hill at Pukekohe is a great example of what you described.

MAKE SURE YOU HAVE GOOD TYRES!

[Shaun]

Turn the bars with all of your might, with your weight on the peg which you want to go down.
The transition from the second left to the right coming up the hill at Pukekohe is a great example of what you described.

MAKE SURE YOU HAVE GOOD TYRES!

Turn the bars with all your might? WILL JUST MAKE HIM CRASH I THINK! Be carefull what you reccomend to people mate, they might take you seriously and try it and fail

[Shaun]

Ok Heres a Question I know how countersterring works bla bla and you hang off with ur body as much as possible to get best turning and so on. I am haveing a few issues with this technique so if you dont know 100% for sure how to answer this plz dont try i dont want to hurt myself. So im in a corner leaning as much as i can, hanging off as much as i can. Going really hard and i want to "flick" the bike over into the next corner as fast as i can what is the best way to do this???

My reccomendation would be the following

Find good streight piece of road, that is safe and not full of traffic

Now ride along that road slowly, focusing on putting weight onto your left footpeg, and then your right footpeg, LOTS OF FORCE< and note what the bike does!

Now do the same, using your handle bars. ie pushing on the left one then the right one, and note what bike does-DO NOT PUSH SUDDENLY!!!!!!

Now get back on a track, and use this practice to get better corner entry exit speed

THE MAIN PROBLEM COULD BE

Your bike chassis geometry set up? it may be set up at the moment, so it does not actually change direction as you think it should, you could try moving your forks in the tripple clamps by around 3mm either way each time, and you will know rather quickly if you like it or not

[t3mp0r4ry nzr]

make sure you have switched body position before you flick the bike back the other way or the bike will wiggle on turn in.just my two cents. See you at taupo

[moT]

Are you sitting on the seat when trying to flick back over or hovering just above it?

in a left hand corner normaly my right upper leg is on the seat when i hang off my legs are not long enough to not touch

[Morcs]

Ok Heres a Question I know how countersterring works bla bla and you hang off with ur body as much as possible to get best turning and so on. I am haveing a few issues with this technique so if you dont know 100% for sure how to answer this plz dont try i dont want to hurt myself. So im in a corner leaning as much as i can, hanging off as much as i can. Going really hard and i want to "flick" the bike over into the next corner as fast as i can what is the best way to do this???

Mate, I can say theres no smooth way to do it, If you are going through a set of S bends, you go hard through one, hanging off, the transition of the bike over to the right will be swift and smooth, but you basically have to lift your arse up and move it across the seat, sliding you left leg across as your right knee goes out - all within the time of transition.

[Hoon]

Going really hard and i want to "flick" the bike over into the next corner as fast as i can what is the best way to do this???

I understand you fully. I also have the same problem and have been working on it for years

Aside from the suspension improvements there is a lot you can do as a rider. This is what I have found out.

1. Turn the handle bars as fast/hard as you can. The quicker you go the more force it needs due to the gyro effect. I remember reading somewhere some coach saying "No one ever crashed from turning too hard". Whether he is right or not I don't know but my best efforts to prove him wrong have failed.

2. When turning, push harder with the inside arm.
Keith Code explains this in his Twist II book. A bulk of the turning force should be coming from your inside pushing arm (on the handle bars), not outside pulling arm. This is because you anchor your body and push against the outside foot on the footpeg which is a more efficient method to deliver force to the handlebars. Pulling is less effective because you only have your knee/groin on the tank to keep you in place and its not stable. Also your pulling (back) muscles aren't as strong as your pushing(chest). To see this you can practice it on the rear stand. Once you have retrained your body to rely more on the pushing then you can add in a little pull as well.

I've also experimented with weighting the inside peg and although this does make the bike turn easier I haven't worked out how to do this while pushing against the outside peg as well?!?

[James Deuce]

But, but, but, but Tom knows everything about riding fast.

My universe has turned upside down.

[moT]

But, but, but, but Tom knows everything about riding fast.

My universe has turned upside down.

lol just about everything

[moT]

I understand you fully. I also have the same problem and have been working on it for years

Aside from the suspension improvements there is a lot you can do as a rider. This is what I have found out.

1. Turn the handle bars as fast/hard as you can. The quicker you go the more force it needs due to the gyro effect. I remember reading somewhere some coach saying "No one ever crashed from turning too hard". Whether he is right or not I don't know but my best efforts to prove him wrong have failed.

2. When turning, push harder with the inside arm.
Keith Code explains this in his Twist II book. A bulk of the turning force should be coming from your inside pushing arm (on the handle bars), not outside pulling arm. This is because you anchor your body and push against the outside foot on the footpeg which is a more efficient method to deliver force to the handlebars. Pulling is less effective because you only have your knee/groin on the tank to keep you in place and its not stable. Also your pulling (back) muscles aren't as strong as your pushing(chest). To see this you can practice it on the rear stand. Once you have retrained your body to rely more on the pushing then you can add in a little pull as well.

I've also experimented with weighting the inside peg and although this does make the bike turn easier I haven't worked out how to do this while pushing against the outside peg as well?!?

thanks thats definatly helpful ill give that a try next track day

[Badjelly]

Now ride along that road slowly, focusing on putting weight onto your left footpeg, and then your right footpeg, LOTS OF FORCE< and note what the bike does!

Give us a hint, Shaun, what will the bike do?

You needn't bother saying the obvious--do it yourself you lazy bastard--as I will give it a try myself when I get a chance.

But I do have a concern, if I push *really* hard on the left footpeg, surely I'll just throw myself off the right-hand side. Do I brace myself against something and, if so, what? Do I lean my upper body to the left to get my weight over the peg? Or lift my bum off the seat and move the substantial amount of weight associated with that part of my anatomy?

[Shaun]

Give us a hint, Shaun, what will the bike do?

You needn't bother saying the obvious--do it yourself you lazy bastard--as I will give it a try myself when I get a chance.

But I do have a concern, if I push *really* hard on the left footpeg, surely I'll just throw myself off the right-hand side. Do I brace myself against something and, if so, what? Do I lean my upper body to the left to get my weight over the peg? Or lift my bum off the seat and move the substantial amount of weight associated with that part of my anatomy?

Go and try doing it, at a very slow pace, and build up the amount of pressure you force on the pegs then!

I do not believe you will slip off the seat

[GSVR]

Loris Capirossi : "I have small levers;my arms are shorther so I haven't as much power as Gibernau, so I use my body and legs a well. I move and use alot of leg like if you were to break a stone"

Its from the Performance riding techniques book. Didn't really understand it and he's italian so probally his english is a little odd but after reading this thread it sort of makes sense now.