Legalise Crystal Meth?

**SixPackBack** · 20th February 2008, 17:56

The thread has been going for a few days now and the result to keep the status quo is overwhelming. N.Z is obviously not ready for such radical change, and to be honest I am not sure legalisation is something I could live with at this stage in our collective development.

Has been an interesting discussion tho', and perhaps some good will come from it. If nothing else a degree of enlightenment should have taken place for the majority, I certainly learnt something.

**Unit:Me** · 20th February 2008, 18:00

Originally Posted by Mikkel

What do you think the drug barons fear the most? Legalisation - that's right!

Yea cause then Aunty Helen would get their share, and the government would become the pimps instead, choice, can we get family assistance for that?

**DMNTD:Me** · 20th February 2008, 19:58

Originally Posted by SixPackBack

Has been an interesting discussion tho', and perhaps some good will come from it. If nothing else a degree of enlightenment should have taken place for the majority, I certainly learnt something.

Sadly there still appears the naive will still choose to be so but yes hopefully some knowledge from experienced persons has been passed on.

For the record I do NOT think P should be decriminalised but I believe pot should be and add stauncher sentences for those that break the laws.

All I've been trying to get across is that taking P in small managed doses is completely different to abusing it.

**SixPackBack** · 20th February 2008, 20:09

Originally Posted by DMNTD

Sadly there still appears the naive will still chose to be so but yes hopefully some knowledge from experienced persons has been passed on.

For the record I do NOT think P should be decriminalised but I believe pot should be and add stauncher sentences for those that break the laws.

All I've been trying to get across is that taking P in small managed doses is completely different to abusing it.

Its a sign of the age DMNTD...'P' is currently demonised as Heroin was before and pot before that.

An interesting analogy exists between drugs and dogs [stay with me!]. When I was a lad Rottweilers seemed to be in the press every 5 minutes for mauling or savagery, yet now seem perfectly acceptable. Pit bulls are the current bad boys, yet many owners have paid a substantial sum for their mutt and don't want it ripping the guts outa the local moggies.

Simply put, they own a problem, but manage it as well.

**RiderInBlack** · 20th February 2008, 20:09

Originally Posted by Mikkel

My point is obvious. I will however explain it - the scene you described with the 4th birthday has nothing to do with the fact that the fella is addicted to P. It could have been a lot of other substances. -> It's not the substance it's how the (ab)user handles it!

Had every thing to do with it. I was there. You where not. P is a very powerfully addictive. It is not a substance that is easily handled by it's users (ya only have ta ask those around them to work that out).
Legalise stuff just because gangs make money off illegal stuff is a poor accuse for legalisation. Follow that line of thinking and nothing would be legal. Legalise theft. Why not? Gangs make money off it. Would save tax payers heaps. Would save on cops and jails and get tax off all sorts of activities.
But ask ya-self this:
Would ya love ta live in that world? One without law. One off Chaos. Someone smash in ta ya bike. Sweet. Just kill them. Of course their friends and family could take you out or ya family. Not worries man. Sweet as.
This is Country has already gone soft as far as I am concerned. Violence is up in schools. Why do ya think that is? The rules have gone soft. Less consequences for their actions.
So, no ya will get me ta buy that legalising hard drugs are in the best interest of this Country.

**Mikkel** · 20th February 2008, 23:21

Originally Posted by RiderInBlack

Had every thing to do with it. I was there. You where not. P is a very powerfully addictive. It is not a substance that is easily handled by it's users (ya only have ta ask those around them to work that out).
Legalise stuff just because gangs make money off illegal stuff is a poor accuse for legalisation. Follow that line of thinking and nothing would be legal. Legalise theft. Why not? Gangs make money off it. Would save tax payers heaps. Would save on cops and jails and get tax off all sorts of activities.
But ask ya-self this:
Would ya love ta live in that world? One without law. One off Chaos. Someone smash in ta ya bike. Sweet. Just kill them. Of course their friends and family could take you out or ya family. Not worries man. Sweet as.
This is Country has already gone soft as far as I am concerned. Violence is up in schools. Why do ya think that is? The rules have gone soft. Less consequences for their actions.
So, no ya will get me ta buy that legalising hard drugs are in the best interest of this Country.

As for the first bit: Yada yada yada - tell it to the left cause you ain't right.
I'm sure P addicts are generally more violent than alcoholics. There are many kinds of addictions and they can all cause a lot of misery to friends and relatives of the addict.
Sure, some things are more addictive than others.
Some addictions are physical and others are mental.

I agree that you wouldn't be likely to cause the scene you described by being addicted to Marvel comics - but I can easily see it happening for an alcoholic.

The middle part: There's a huge difference between choosing to take a substance (knowing the risks involved) and physically taking hold of another individuals possesions.
Criminalising drugs is treating people like children - removing a personal choice that may or may not affect others. It's the nanny state at play.
Take the american approach to sexual education - abstinence. You teach people that sex is wrong and you shouldn't avoid it. The problem is that when curiosity gets the better of the people being taught in this way they are ignorant of both the how-to and the possible consequences of their exploration. Same goes for drugs I'm afraid - and though a lot of people never try them there is something fascinatingly interesting about them, and that's partly because they are illegal!

The last bit: Of course I wouldn't want to live in anarchy. And I agree completely with almost everything you say after posing that question!
Democrazy was founded upon amongst others the virtue of freedom under responsibility. Problem is today that people don't appreciate the value of freedom enough to act responsibly around it.

**Bikernereid** · 21st February 2008, 03:41

As somone has spent a lot of time around 'functioning' alcoholics I think the damage is all relative to the addiction.

I am helping somone who is an alcoholic and believe the damage it is doing to him; vomitting blood, falling over and breaking his nose and splitting his lip are just a couple of the lesser damages. This person is socially isolated, is frightened constantly, and has no contact with anyone except for me and the people he works with. The drink has completely ruined his life and will ruin his career and his health if the help he is finally getting doesn't work.

I have seen other acolholic friends still too drunk from the night before not being able to take thier child to hospital. The impact of alcohol doesn't just affect the alcoholic, the imapcts are far wider reaching.

[QUOTE=RiderInBlack;1435836]Sorry ya point is? I feel the same way about heroin (BIG NO FU*KEN WAY), and you are saying the side-effects are worse for P

There is less a lot less chance of getting addicted to alcohol than P, and it's side-effects don't even come near P.

**DingoZ** · 21st February 2008, 03:53

Have a gander at this

Still want to have something like this LEGAL...?

As someone else has said "BIG NO FUCKIN WAY"

There's too many other things in this life which can f..k people up. We don't need this shit

**SixPackBack** · 21st February 2008, 06:10

Originally Posted by DingoZ

Have a gander at this

Still want to have something like this LEGAL...?

As someone else has said "BIG NO FUCKIN WAY"

There's too many other things in this life which can f..k people up. We don't need this shit

Propganda. Exactly the same concept could be applied to alcohol and tobaco users, the only thing that would change would be the timeline and thats almost entirley due to consumption.

The real danger with adverts such as this is that the indivduals not frightened away are no wiser. Once tried even a few times the user realsies that in fact their life may not be changing significantly and the authorities are feeding them bullshit.

When I was at high school a movie was screened by the Police showing cannabis users jumping off buildings??

Excatly why the Health authorities should be far more responsible for abuse, only then would some real clarity and education exist.

**RiderInBlack** · 21st February 2008, 06:39

Originally Posted by SixPackBack

Propganda. Exactly the same concept could be applied to alcohol and tobaco users, the only thing that would change would be the timeline and thats almost entirley due to consumption.
.....
Excatly why the Health authorities should be far more responsible for abuse, only then would some real clarity and education exist.

Firstly yes it probably is, but how is that different to your own propaganda and that the dealers are trying ta sell users on. Got ta fight Propaganda with Propaganda. At least that message is trying ta encourage healthier behavior.
Just because legal substances can cause similar outcomes does not make for a good reason to legalise hard drugs, especially if the drug in concern causes that result quicker with lower consumption

As for the last bit, I agree that Health Authorities should be involved. They often are. Ask psychic nurses and rehab half way houses.

Yes it treating people like children, but then they are acting like children by not taking responsibly for their choices and the effect it has on those around them. If the human animal was a responsible animal we wouldn't need laws. But we are not and will never be that responsible.

**DMNTD:Me** · 21st February 2008, 06:47

Originally Posted by RiderInBlack

Got ta fight Propaganda with Propaganda.

Facts with facts would make a nice change though eh...

**Steam** · 21st February 2008, 08:13

I found this entertaining photo, from a school science fair in the USA.

**iwilde** · 21st February 2008, 08:41

Ok, someone please explain to me what a user gets out of using meth? I tried all sorts of drugs when I was younger (before meth) and all gave some sort of high, altered state etc...But I've not herd someone say thats its a great party drug, or gets you realy wasted before a rock concert. All I've herd is that it can keep you awake for days on end, to do what? Working round the house and on the bike 24hrs a day? As far as blaming violent crime on a drug I think its a matter of time reguardless of meth that they will beat, rape or murder. a bad bastard is a bad bastard. But back to my original question, what does the user get out of it?

**scumdog** · 21st February 2008, 08:48

The argument that just leave it to sort itself out is meaningless when it comes to P users.
Those that are dumb enough to use it will anyway - and the results are not pretty (or cheap).

One can only hope the fear of a criminal conviction will scare a few off using the crap even if seeing what it can possibly do does not.

Alcohol is bad
Nicotine is bad

Why allow the use of yet another substance that is as bad as the two above - and then some??