Legalise Crystal Meth?

[DMNTD:Me]

As I say... "different strokes" we have different body chemistry.

Bang on...I know people that get highly motivated after smoking a joint,I for one just zone out.
I gave up smoking weed socially 7 or 8 years ago simply because it didn't "suit me" but love the smell of a decent joint

[scumdog]

True. The resource is side shifted from the corrections department. External and on going support is the key. Progresivly longer stays within a 'health camp' would be as big a stick as prison without the lingering side effects. Its important to note this help would/could be for abusers and not users, together with a list of safe use levels this type of system would be a revelation I beleive.

You're possibly right but with my A Grade degree in cynicism I tend to think "Mehh, educate them re drugs, abuse and problems associated with drug use and abuse - and if they go ahead and use/abuse the stuff and end up in the shit? -then bugger the 'External and on going support' - they got themselves into it - they can sort it out themselves and get themselves out of it".

Different strokes for different folks again..

[Disco Dan]

You're possibly right but with my A Grade degree in cynicism I tend to think "Mehh, educate them re drugs, abuse and problems associated with drug use and abuse - and if they go ahead and use/abuse the stuff and end up in the shit? -then bugger the 'External and on going support' - they got themselves into it - they can sort it out themselves and get themselves out of it".

Different strokes for different folks again..

I certainly agree with that.. but what would happen to those folks who choose to ignore the education and get themselves into a pickle?

Wouldn't it then fall to the tax payer in prison time/state rehab???

[Edbear]

You're possibly right but with my A Grade degree in cynicism I tend to think "Mehh, educate them re drugs, abuse and problems associated with drug use and abuse - and if they go ahead and use/abuse the stuff and end up in the shit? -then bugger the 'External and on going support' - they got themselves into it - they can sort it out themselves and get themselves out of it".

Different strokes for different folks again..

I guess it's a case for, "walk a mile in my shoes". Law enforcement, the hospitals and those who care for addicts see the worst of society and the worst effects of drugs and alcohol. Not surprisingly they can get rather cynical.

It would be recommended that anyone who wants to know the effects should go along with the Police and see for themselves the crap they have to deal with on a daily basis, or visit a rehab centre, talk to Women's Refuge, hang around the ambulance bay at a hospital on a Saturday night...

I've seen both sides of it in a limited way, from having to deal with the unpredictable violence and subterfuge of an addict and the effect on my family as the target of his violence, chiefly my daughter, (the Police were amazing, empathetic and proactive!), to being addicted to prescription painkillers myself and the nightmare 5 year battle I had. I know how hard it is to get off them and it's an experience I'd hate to see anyone go through.

There will always be those who claim to be relatively unaffected, just as there are those in their 80's who have smoked all their lives and haven't got cancer. However they will always remain a minority. In my experience, (mainly in forestry gangs back in the '70's), when dope was freely available and smoked everywhere, every person I worked with using it was a dipstick! One was so brain dead he'd hardly know what day it was! I never found one person smoking dope that was the slightest bit academic or interested in their future beyond the next weekend when they boasted about how many chicks they were going to root and how much beer they were going to drink and how much dope they were going to smoke. That's after boasting about how much they did the weekend before...

I've met and worked with all strata's from millionnaires to paupers and the key difference is the attitude of each. When looking at the person and listening to them it is plainly obvious why each is of that class.

[P38]

Should methamphetamine (P) be legalised?
reasons for and against please?

Idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[carver]

Idiot!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nice reason

you have really thought that one through

[scumdog]

nice reason

you have really thought that one through

Yes, it's obvious you didn't fool HIM!!

[jrandom]

Bang on...I know people that get highly motivated after smoking a joint,I for one just zone out.

Mm, yes. Personally, I find that I can be creative when stoned, but I tend to just grow hugely intellectually lazy. I don't smoke weed when I know I have stuff to do later in the day.

Those who've been around me when I'm baked and they're not describe me as growing apparently simpler, using shorter words, and disappearing into my own quiet little world.

I find it more enjoyable and useful as an emotionally-balancing form of recreation than drinking alcohol, but it's certainly not something I could operate on a daily basis with!

I would also point out that I wouldn't consider flyingcrocodile's example of doing trig to work out roof truss lengths and cut angles to be the sort of effort that's difficult to undertake stoned. Relatively straightforward, single-level tasks like that don't present much difficulty. What I find I have trouble with is complex, multi-layered, intersecting matters that involve keeping different things balanced in my mind at the same time and modelling their interaction.

Unfortunately, as a programmer, almost all of my paying work requires such activity, rather than a straightforward one-at-a-time approach to tasks, so I don't have the luxury of being able to remain productive under the influence of cannabis.

Certainly weed seems to affect different people in very different ways. A friend of mine is a regular tobacco smoker, but can't smoke cannabis at all; it makes her nauseous. Another girl I once knew couldn't smoke weed without growing horribly paranoid and human-interaction-averse (didn't stop her from smoking, though, beats me why). I know a guy who gets really, really foul-mouthed when he's baked, and another one who won't let me play Dark Side of the Moon because it scares him.

It doesn't surprise me at all when I hear that folk who are of unsound mind to start with descend into schizophrenia and delusional paranoia under the influence.

I believe responsible law-abiding adults should be allowed to put whatever they wish into their bodies, but all psychoactive substances deserve respect and research before being used recreationally. It's unfortunate that the average drug user tends to fall short of that bar.

[Edbear]

... What I find I have trouble with is complex, multi-layered, intersecting matters that involve keeping different things balanced in my mind at the same time and modelling their interaction..

Umm! Yeah, me too...

[SixPackBack]

One network news tonight.

Alcohol as bad as drugs say experts
Feb 23, 2008 7:07 PM
New Zealand's drug laws are under review and international experts are challenging the government to make changes based on fact not fear.

Delegates at a top level conference gathering in New Zealand this week have criticised the country's laws saying they criminalise recreational users while making the most dangerous drug - alcohol - easily accessible to the young.
"In this research we found that alcohol...thats ethanol has around about the same dangerousness to public health as fantasy," says Dr Doug Sellman, a drugs researcher.
The forum says its irrational for the government to toughen up drug laws without considering New Zealand's biggest killers, which are cigarettes and liquor.
"If someone was to invent alcohol today and we didnt have it we would be very concerned about its dangers and would probably classify it as a class B drug," says Professor David Nutt, an international drug expert.
Ex heroin junkie and now head of the Drugs Foundation says the booze pedlers have big bucks and power.
"Industry of that size always has hugely powerful lobbyists...there are people involved talking to government all the time," says Tim Harding, the New Zealand Drugs Foundation Chair.
Despite the warnings the government says alcohol will not be banned anytime soon
"Alcohol and tobacco have their own acts of parliament surrounding their use and availability," says Jim Anderton, the Associate Health Minister
But even the experts admit that drafting a drug policy is tough
"Every government struggles with how best to classify a drug...theres alot of conflicting evidence," says Michel Peron, a Drug Policy campaigner.
But even evidence isn't enough with more than a 1000 New Zealanders being killed every year from alcohol related illnesses.
The experts say the fact alcohol is still accessible and acceptable is sobering.

Soothsayers from this thread will continue to bury their collective heads, in spite of international drug experts assertions our current laws are, well, pretty fucked up really.
Flame away!

[Grahameeboy]

One network news tonight.

Alcohol as bad as drugs say experts
Feb 23, 2008 7:07 PM
New Zealand's drug laws are under review and international experts are challenging the government to make changes based on fact not fear.

Delegates at a top level conference gathering in New Zealand this week have criticised the country's laws saying they criminalise recreational users while making the most dangerous drug - alcohol - easily accessible to the young.
"In this research we found that alcohol...thats ethanol has around about the same dangerousness to public health as fantasy," says Dr Doug Sellman, a drugs researcher.
The forum says its irrational for the government to toughen up drug laws without considering New Zealand's biggest killers, which are cigarettes and liquor.
"If someone was to invent alcohol today and we didnt have it we would be very concerned about its dangers and would probably classify it as a class B drug," says Professor David Nutt, an international drug expert.
Ex heroin junkie and now head of the Drugs Foundation says the booze pedlers have big bucks and power.
"Industry of that size always has hugely powerful lobbyists...there are people involved talking to government all the time," says Tim Harding, the New Zealand Drugs Foundation Chair.
Despite the warnings the government says alcohol will not be banned anytime soon
"Alcohol and tobacco have their own acts of parliament surrounding their use and availability," says Jim Anderton, the Associate Health Minister
But even the experts admit that drafting a drug policy is tough
"Every government struggles with how best to classify a drug...theres alot of conflicting evidence," says Michel Peron, a Drug Policy campaigner.
But even evidence isn't enough with more than a 1000 New Zealanders being killed every year from alcohol related illnesses.
The experts say the fact alcohol is still accessible and acceptable is sobering.

Soothsayers from this thread will continue to bury their collective heads, in spite of international drug experts assertions our current laws are, well, pretty fucked up really.
Flame away!

Yep, crazy world eh.

Nicotine is not good either...like you say more people die or end up with either mental or physical issues due to alcohol and smoking yet how do these figures compare with illgeal drug users.

One person OD's on 'P'...front page news..."she was such a sweet girl, good at her grades..."...something has to be done to stop this...

Guy dies from ill health due to smoking...back page news in the 'Deaths' column.

It's a funny old world.

[MIXONE]

One network news tonight.

Alcohol as bad as drugs say experts
The experts say the fact alcohol is still accessible and acceptable is sobering.
[/FONT]

I must be doing something wrong.Every time I access alcohol I get pissed not sober.

[DMNTD:Me]

I never found one person smoking dope that was the slightest bit academic or interested in their future beyond the next weekend when they boasted about how many chicks they were going to root and how much beer they were going to drink and how much dope they were going to smoke....

Well I guess you only knew some really thick buggers then sir.
Could intro you to a number of dope smokers with relatively high IQ's that hold down high paid jobs and don't talk about their sexual conquests infact I doubt that most if anyone would be able to tell that they are smokers.
Lots of grey area that most don't know about and the Police don't have to deal with regularly

[Disco Dan]

Well I guess you only knew some really thick buggers then sir.
Could intro you to a number of dope smokers with relatively high IQ's that hold down high paid jobs and don't talk about their sexual conquests infact I doubt that most if anyone would be able to tell that they are smokers.
Lots of grey area that most don't know about and the Police don't have to deal with regularly

+1 I could list a rather shocking list of people in several industries that have high paid jobs, are very well educated and are regular pot smokers.

Isn't that where 'eccentric' came from

[Zuki Bandit]

Youv'e all seen the horror stories of meth!!!