650 pro twins...

[svr]

Aaaaaaaha, so you were the prat on that piece of shite looking thing

Didn't know looks were that important, Shaun.

[Shaun]

Didn't know looks were that important, Shaun.

WOOPS, Sorry dude I was actually trying to have a joke with ya, I had determined from your posts, that you are not a fassion victim, nor a pretender

So my comment was just meant as a laugh mate

Sorry if it came across offensive

[Robert Taylor]

Would be really helpful Robert if you could read the whole post and not just the bits that affect your business.IF you had you would have noticed firstly that nobody was suggesting you could build a Pro twins bike for under 10k under the current format,Rather under a revised format,Secondly,Re Sam Loves bike.The point was not whether He was happy with the package,Rather whether he should have needed to spend so much.After all you need to know the basics before moving on to the technical side and as there is no other class outside of streetstock where better to learn than Pro twins.I would suggest you go back and reread the post so you understand it completely before commenting.Have a nice day

Going to have to agree to disagree. Learning is also learning about bike setup BASICS and such skills need to be introduced as early as possible in a riders career. We are in 2008, not 1978. I think also it needs to be considered that a hell of a lot of people put a lot into this sport in NZ through sheer goodwill. In real terms it is probably a lot cheaper to race here than in other countries. In the fullness of time we shall see if this class prospers or falters.
Incidentally I was consulted on the rules and recommended standard forks and that emulators and springs were the only allowable rods for machines with damper rod forks. So its an $800 job rather than an up to $3k cartridge job. So costs being kept within a reasonable level were part of the brief.

[Robert Taylor]

If pro twins and streetstock are the only classes to "learn" then what is 125 for?

And its fed into 600s some top level riders such as Sam Smith, Nick Cole etc. Its a great class.

[k14]

And its fed into 600s some top level riders such as Sam Smith, Nick Cole etc. Its a great class.

The exact point I was trying to make. In the last few years I can't think of anyone who has made the jump into 600s from F3 and had any decent. There is a small handful of 125 riders that have. People are too quick to dismiss 125's for being "high maintenance" but none of these people have actually had any experience with them.

[speedpro]

That Charlott chap had a go on a 125 once, and a bucket, and that whippersnapper Shirriff has been seen on a bucket as well. Not that I'm suggesting buckets are a good feeder for the "real" classes.

[Tim 39]

125's are awesome!!! the more I race them the mroe I like them!
my (biased) opinion is that 125GP would teach at least as much race craft as any other class, therefor has to be good for future pursuits right?

[Shaun]

125's are awesome!!! the more I race them the mroe I like them!
my (biased) opinion is that 125GP would teach at least as much race craft as any other class, therefor has to be good for future pursuits right?

Gotta agree with ya Kirk

[Robert Taylor]

how much better are the ttx shocks over the 3 or 4 year old shocks, glenw and terrys over teh rest of the f3 feild and how much better are the forks you worked on in aussy over the current ones......
john

Thats a very good question. If I may be permitted to be cynical I must be careful how I reply because the ''budget police'' will be analysing my every word!!!!
Its a little hard to quantify, Glen Williams has been able to punt his machine around at very high corner speeds with the chassis being very stable and not looking as if its right on the edge. Like Terry Fitz ( who also runs one ) hes not getting any younger and perhaps has an age induced sense of self preservation. Look at young Steve Wood ( have I got his name right? ) Hes prepared to hang it right on the edge with his more standard spec Ohlins rear and can periodically hang with these guys. And may I say what a talent and very polite and likable to boot. A model of attitude in that he aspires to improve and I wish him the very best re same.

It would therefore be interesting to do a subjective test with such a rider, ''standard'' spec against TTX36, ditto for cartridges. Around Manfield? Maybe a second, maybe 1.5 seconds. The sad reality is that the relativity between dollars spent and lap time reduction is a prabolic curve. No argument with that.

This just happened when Glen asked if there was a TTX36 listed for SV650 and the answer is of course no. What we do is to modify a GSXR1000 TTX36 to fit and we spent a good part of the winter series revalving and respringing to Glens satisfaction. I may add that Glen paid the standard retail price and there were no further charges for ongoing trackside development. It is evident that his feedback was excellent and he should really be collecting royalties on the subsequent ones I have built to order.

[Tim 39]

Gotta agree with ya Kirk

most people just call me Tim but thats alright

[Robert Taylor]

how much better are the ttx shocks over the 3 or 4 year old shocks, glenw and terrys over teh rest of the f3 feild and how much better are the forks you worked on in aussy over the current ones......
john

Oops, second answer. The stuff inside the Supersport 600 bikes is very very new but the teams using them are very happy even though it is in the early stages and a ''work in progress'' Probably available later in 09, I guess.

But the current FGK stuff is working very well and I would attribute 50% of the effort in smashing lap records being that we seem to have arrived at an excellent generic spec with these cartridges. I think Bugden, Stroud, Jones, Shirriffs, Cudlin, Charlett, Smart, Williams, Sadowski x 2, Smith, Cole, Lawrence and a few others will happily testify that they are delighted with the settings and performance. The very same spec we ''exported'' to Australia, check out Sean Giles result in the first round of Aussie Superbike champs over the weekend.

[Robert Taylor]

Gotta agree with ya Kirk

I second that

[Shaun]

most people just call me Tim but thats alright

NO KIRK-I do not fancy you Sorry there Tim

[Robert Taylor]

Get the youngsters onto dirt bikes. People that did alot of dirtbike riding when they where young all seem to have an edge over ones that didn't.

slowpoke I think I have a handle on your veiws now: There is no place for SV650s or ProTwin racing as New Zealand will never have any good racers if they learn to ride on these types of bikes right?




If I was to fit a 190 section Superbike tyre to my 4 1/5 inch SV rim which according to some tyre manufacturers is too narrow for a 160 section should I be allowed to race as this and potentually put other racers at risk with this unrecommended combination?.

Plenty of standard unmodified SVs do trackdays and surprisingly they crash or run off the track alot less than learners on bigger bikes.

I'm not trying to adopt a third world mentality. If the ProTwin class cost 1/2 what it does today to compete in it would become viable for alot more younger people who may otherwise go no further than Streetstock.

I really don't see it as a class for X New Zealand champions but a great class for riders without rich daddys or plenty of dispossable income to have a fair crack at racing and being competitive.

If anyone considers the class to budget they can always get a Supersport bike like others have done but most of them don't last long as theres too many expense crash repair bills.

Young guy starting out has a huge amount of expenses. Keep Protwin as cheap as possible and if someone wants to spend megabucks they can race in F3 or Supersport if they think they can meet the standard and not take out other riders.

If a rider makes a modest outlay to get an SV on the track and decides racing isn't for them then a complete ready to race package becomes available for someone else.

If there is a safety issue with SVs without emulators and aftermarket shocks is it not irresponsable for MNZ to allow these bikes on the track if they haven't been made potentually safe?

I agree about the dirtbikes.

But the trackday comparison isnt really apples for apples. In general riders at a trackday are not going to hang it out right to the edge so they wont load the chassis anywhere near as much and therefore expose the deficiencies of the suspension as readily.

You know, the pursuit of cheapness has perversely affected all of our lives. I made a derisory statement in a previous post stating that its 2008 and not 1978. But there were certain advantages in 1978. Back then when you walked into a ( locally owned ) hardware store to purchase a humble plastic bucket you bought something that was suitably thick and durable. Now you buy it at a big chain store that pays its staff mediocre wages, the thing is wafer thin, floppy and made in a country that would be best left to only making rice and firecrackers. Sure its cheap but youve got to handle it with kid gloves even as you are transporting it home, and dont put anything heavy in it!

Maybe thats a poor comparison but if we keep convincing ourselves that everything must be cheap cheap and cheap then everything is going to be mediocre, aspiration will be suppressed and we wont rise above it all. Our failure at the Yachting and Rugby are ( arguably ) in part a reflection of the mediocre path this nation has been treading.

[Movistar]

You'll have to excuse my ignorance on this topic... but is it not feasable that a class is set up where riders lease their rides, all of which are the same type of machine, suspension, brakes, wheels tyres etc? Like the Porsche Cup.

Surely a manufacturer would get behind this along with other distributors to ensure the success of the class along with the ongoing development of the machine and most importantly the racer?

Maybe this has been tried before?

Seems like the fairest way of getting a control class, I know there are always those that 'bend' the rules and manage to find loopholes, that's never going to change, and to some degree nor should it, as that can sometimes be where a lot of the development comes from!