Blipping the throttle on downshifts?

[Badjelly]

Blipping just makes the next gear mesh a little more smoothly than it would otherwise.

It does seem to, but it's a bit of a mystery why. What I'm saying is this: it's easy to see how blipping the throttle lets you re-engage the clutch quickly without extra load on the drive system and braking of the bike, but it also seems to improve the actual gearchange. How does that work when you aren't double clutching (ie. re-engaging the clutch while the gearbox is in neutral)? I've always assumed that there's enough clutch drag with a wet clutch to spin up the input gear shaft as the box goes through neutral, thereby improving engagement of the next gear. But this wouldn't work with a dry clutch. What do ya all reckon?

[onearmedbandit]

Why not? Good gearchange technique is always useful and has nothing to do with cornering speeds.

You miss the point entirely of my little piss-take, which I think you intended to do anyway. You said, and I quote, "And you should ask a friend of mine on a 998 with Öhlins and everything why he has a very hard time keeping up in the tight twisty stuff? A "lowly" SV can't be that shit then?". If those tyres were used that day, then your claim falls flat on it's arse. Simple. Any way, I digress, back to the topic at hand...

[enigma51]

I find using sand paper helps with chicken strips and for knee sliders a grinder works the best

For the bliping ?????? what the fuck is that

[ManDownUnder]

It does seem to, but it's a bit of a mystery why. What I'm saying is this: it's easy to see how blipping the throttle lets you re-engage the clutch quickly without extra load on the drive system and braking of the bike, but it also seems to improve the actual gearchange. How does that work when you aren't double clutching (ie. re-engaging the clutch while the gearbox is in neutral)? I've always assumed that there's enough clutch drag with a wet clutch to spin up the input gear shaft as the box goes through neutral, thereby improving engagement of the next gear. But this wouldn't work with a dry clutch. What do ya all reckon?

When changing down the engine will be sped up when the clutch is engaged.

To speed the engine up it needs an input of energy and that's going to either comes from:
1) Momentum. Change down but don't blip the throttle, let the clutch out and you'll feel "drag" on the bike while the engine spins up. Do this on a big engine, or an engine with high torque and it'll possibly cause a loss of traction on the back wheel due to so much load being placed on the back wheel by the engine (i.e. it wants to go from 3,000 rpm in the higher gear... to 5,000rpm in the lower gear, and if you just pop the clutch out it the rear wheel has to supply all that energy in the space of 1/10th of a second).

Chain goes tight, possible loss of traction on the rear wheel and a decent "jolt" to the rider

2) Fuel (throttle blip). Throttle spins the engine up and when the clutch is engaged the rear wheel has less (or ideally no) load on it... you lose no momentum, no reduction in traction and no discomfort to the rider


Small engines (let's say a 150, or most two strokes) don't have enough internal masss and/or compression to really worry about it, but it's a handy tool to have in your kit bag to use as appropriate. It's awkward at first but as with most things you'll be doing it totally subconsciously after a while.

[enigma51]

Chain goes tight, possible loss of traction on the rear wheel and a decent "jolt" to the rider)

Tell me about it I though you just sort of go slower into the corner so it does not do that

[jrandom]

If those tyres were used that day, then your claim falls flat on it's arse. Simple.

Actually, not necessarily; maybe he just happens to know someone who owns a 998 and is a really really crap rider.

One imagines them out together, pristine knee sliders sparkling in the sunlight, racing each other through corners, each trying to be the first to one day (gasp) exceed the signposted recommended speed...

[ManDownUnder]

Tell me about it I though you just sort of go slower into the corner so it does not do that

Ideally you should be managing your engine/throttle settings to maintain your road speed, not changing your road speed to manage your engine (if that makes sense?)

If this is not a pisstake, I'd suggest you simply change down before you enter the corner if you're not comfortable doing it part way through, keep the revs in a suitable range, power out of the corner and change up again when you're good to go.

You'll find with practice it's entirely possible (in fact 2nd nature) to be braking on the front, blipping and changing down all at once, through anything except the hairiest of corners.

We all get the entry speed/gear wrong from time to time, and it's good to be able to easily correct it as you go.

[Badjelly]

...

You're missing my point, ManDownUnder. I agree entirely about the effect blipping the throttle (aka synchronising engine speed) has when you re-engage the clutch, but it's my impression that it also improves the actual gearchange (ie disengaging one gear & engaging the next).

[jrandom]

Ideally you should be managing your engine/throttle settings to maintain your road speed, not changing your road speed to manage your engine (if that makes sense?)

Bahahahaha!

You haven't ridden with Enigma, have you... as far as I can tell, in his opinion, ideally he should be managing his engine/throttle settings to leave the maximum amount of black crayon marks all the way through the corner with his rear tyre.

[ManDownUnder]

You're missing my point, ManDownUnder. I agree entirely about the effect blipping the throttle (aka synchronising engine speed) has when you re-engage the clutch, but it's my impression that it also improves the actual gearchange (ie disengaging one gear & engaging the next).

Aaaa sorry and ok. That's beyond my expertise, something to do with the synchromesh in the gearbox etc, but I'd be spouting pure fiction if I tried to answer it.

Bahahahaha!

You haven't ridden with Enigma, have you... as far as I can tell, in his opinion, ideally he should be managing his engine/throttle settings to leave the maximum amount of black crayon marks all the way through the corner with his rear tyre.

LOL points taken. As an observation - ever noticed how many of them end up pointing at damaged yet inanimate objects near the road? Rocks, trees, strainer posts... that sort of thing?

I wonder if it's co-incidence?

[jrandom]

As an observation - ever noticed how many of them end up pointing at damaged yet inanimate objects near the road?

Mm, yes. I have fond memories of being in the pit lane loos at Taupo track and hearing the screeching chittering of a rear tyre in agony, wandering out and seeing Enigma gingerly turning his bike around on the grass at the end of the hairpin...

[ManDownUnder]

Mm, yes. I have fond memories of being in the pit lane loos at Taupo track and hearing the screeching chittering of a rear tyre in agony, wandering out and seeing Enigma gingerly turning his bike around on the grass at the end of the hairpin...

...so applying KB rationale, that means the grass was badly designed, or possibly the hairpin?

[dipshit]

Actually, not necessarily; maybe he just happens to know someone who owns a 998 and is a really really crap rider.

One imagines them out together, pristine knee sliders sparkling in the sunlight, racing each other through corners, each trying to be the first to one day (gasp) exceed the signposted recommended speed...

Bingo...!!

PS.. I don't wear knee sliders for road riding..

[Usarka]

Mm, yes. I have fond memories of being in the pit lane loos at Taupo track and hearing the screeching chittering of a rear tyre in agony, wandering out and seeing Enigma gingerly turning his bike around on the grass at the end of the hairpin...

Then rinsing and repeating the following lap.

[dipshit]

So putting this thread up shortly after you got Yoshis on the SV was entirely coincidental?

Yes...!!